Xenon retrofit help needed please - Page 3

rsmck · 03-07-2009, 08:54 PM

@mross I tried to send this by PM but it's disabled here ... since it's maybe a little off-topic for the thread and I don't really want to hijack someone else's thread

Anyway, I've obtained a couple of bi-xenon headlamps from a 2007 model (same year as my car) A6 with the correct beam patterns

... what do I need to do to get these working - is it worth obtaining the Kufatec adapter (where do the extra two wires go on that?)

Through time I will probably add the self-levelling if I can get hole of the required components cheaply but for the meantime I just need the lights to work (with dipped + full beam and, obviously, indicators/turn-signals) and remain set at a fixed level.

Is there a how-to guide anywhere that shows what wiring needs changing ?

aj84 · 03-07-2009, 09:10 PM

Hi all,

I think theres a few questions on what goes on with the retrofits so I'll try and breakdown any queries I have seen on here:

1. You can't just add HIDs + Ballasts into the existing halogen lighting housings are these are not compliant and will flood the housing with light rather than having them directed - this obviously blinds oncoming traffic + MOT failure however...all your lights will work including manual levelling.

2. What does the Kufatec adaptor do? Well if you got halogen lighting currently, you will need the adaptor as the current plugs will >not< fit the xenon lights (providing you bought the full original OEM xenon lights)
This will however, remove your manual adjustment. You do have the ability howver to manually adjust on the headlight housings itself using a philips screwdriver so if your car doesnt go up/down much in weight, you can set it so it directs centre or down and leave it as it is - obviously going up/down a hill, it wont adjust so you could blind people.

This too is an MOT failure.

3. What were my problems with the kufatec? I spent weeks on trying to do this mod and in the end failed + gave up.

The adaptor was fine...fitted the existing ones and converted them no problems.
The problems started that despite the vag-com change to allow the car to recognise the lights, I could not get all the functionality working.

Depending on code (from what I remember), the high beams (pull lever) would not work, and indicators would not work. Side lights did but kept stating bulb failure as did the indicators + beam bulbs.

There were two wires that were coming out of the adaptor which I had no idea what they were for. The Kufatec instructions as usual we in German so no understanding there (plus hardly any text to convert!)

From my understanding, these were the two key wires to solve the issus I was having but from the vague information I had, Audi had (what they would provide) and the guys on here and other forums...these two wires had to go to the headlight control moduel found potentially somewhere under the steering wheel.

Having found my emails from Kufa, the reply was as follows:

"the extra wires are for the bi xenon switch and daylight which need to be connected to the boardnet controlling unit."

On replying about difficulty:
"Dear It's not difficult"

On further asking for information on where the hell it was...and sending themthe picture under my steering wheel#
(Imageshack - cimg0805tu9.jpg)
I got no reply

Bang went 50 quid - wasted

In the end, I got so frustrated, i took them out and sold them on ebay with the adaptors.

Hopefully that may help - I know one guy on here I think has actually done it successfully but he went the whole way with the levelling etc.

rsmck · 03-07-2009, 10:05 PM

1 => I know, I'm using OEM Audi Bi-Xenon headlamps with Ballast + proper optics

2 => The self-levelling never worked in the last OEM bi-xenon car i drove have never been flashed at by anyone, passed MOT every time and were adjusted correctly by the MOT centre. Not having manually-adjustable headlamps or self-levelling is *not* an MOT failure, although the DfT do say that "in their opinion it is not legal" to have it fitted without the self-levelling, although it does not (yet) form part of the MOT

3 => Disappointed to hear of your experience with Kufatec, I believe they now have a UK distributor so they may be able to offer more information. mross above has retrofitted them successfully with self-levelling etc and I hope he'll at least be able to advise how to connect them (with or without the kufatec kit) and get the full-beam and indicators working

... self-levelling I may well add in the future.

Re the above information on my MOT experiences: My last car (VW Passat) had Bi-Xenon headlamps with no self-levelling (and a manual adjustment control that did nothing), it passed 3 MOTs in the time I had it. Another car I have access to (SAAB 9-5) has OEM Bi-Xenon headlamps and the self-leveling has not worked for many years (faulty sensor) - it has passed 4 MOTs in that condition.

aj84 · 03-07-2009, 10:09 PM

If they do have a UK distro. great - I wanted to use them for many things but just felt scared after that attempt!

Hmm interesting about the MOT - it's something I've always been told. From the 2009 testing schema:

Lights

The headlamps are checked for alignment with a Beam Setter. After first aligning the equipment with the vehicle, the left and right headlamp beams are checked to ensure they are correctly set so as not to dazzle other road users.
Test Description
All required lights are checked for:

operation
condition
security

Side lights and headlamps

are the correct type and colour
dip and aim.

Stop lights, indicators and hazard lights*

are the correct type and colour
do not interfere with each other in operation
driver's tell-tale works with respect to indicators, or there is an audible warning system.

Rear Fog lamps**

must be fitted to the centre or offside of the vehicle
tell-tale must work
must not be affected by other lamps and not be obscured
must be red.

Number plate lamps

All lamps fitted must be working.

Rear reflectors

There must be two red reflectors fitted reasonably symmetrically, securely attached and not obscured.

* Must be fitted to all vehicles first used on or after 1st April 1986, but if fitted, must be tested.
** Must be fitted to all vehicles first used on or after 1st April 1980.

rsmck · 03-07-2009, 10:14 PM

I think the consensus by the MOT stations that have tested mine then must be that they are set so as not to dazzle other road users and that the aim is correct, the manual adjustment control for the halogen lights is never used by people going up a hill but rather for heavy loads which lower the rear of the vehicle and change the angle of the light, in which case my lights possibly would dazzle oncoming traffic however the car never has such a load in it...

I'm only going from past experience but I would have no issue with them as long as their correctly adjusted. I'll also add that i have been on the road with my own car behind me and coming the opposite way from me (that's what I get for sharing cars with the other half

) and have never been dazzled by the light as I have been from many cars I've seen with "retrofitted hid kits"

Hoping I can get these working as-is for now (assuming mross can share his knowledge

) ... and then will probably add the self-levelling at some point in the future as and when I can get the parts reasonably

mross · 04-07-2009, 08:39 PM

Hi guys,
here are electrical schemes of "our problem"

(I've passed...

)
Kufatec set allows us to connect bixenon headlights without unnecesary work with connectors mounting.
From each lamp there are two extra wires.
First- from long beam solenoid
Second-from day driving lamp.
You take them into cabin, remove cover under steering wheel and if you'll lay on the floor - you will see black flat box with three connectors. This box is called "bordnetz". You put that wires to connector A and C (see pdf file!). And if you have bordnetz which is "able of xenon presence in the car" - you take vag com and recode 09 module.
You must know that NOT ALL bordnetzs are able to do this. Espiecially if you got 4F0 907 279B - you will not be able to force bordnetz to accept xenons (no long beam and no day driving lights). 4F0 907 279 without "B" should be OK.
So, after that you will have bixenons with long beam, with day driving lights and with no errors on fis.
Of course there will be no auto levelling and no washer system (required by law - the same in Poland).
On pdf - there's electrical scheme of auto levelling system. Its not easy, but also not so difficoult to do.
Will not tell you what's my job, but believe me - if I did it by myself - EVERYONE will do this...

For the end:
Just've bought bixenons with AFS and new J431 module for AFS - on wednesday I'll should have 3 free hours. And if the weather will be fine - I will have A6 with AFS lights...

There's no magic with this. Just think and u will manage it.
Regards
_Mross

rsmck · 05-07-2009, 09:38 AM

Hi Mross, thanks for the details above, I'll get someone with VAGCOM (don't have it myself) to run a full scan on it this week and get the Bordnetz version... knowing my luck it'll have a B .. is there a complete list anywhere of versions are / arent compatible?

I think my main worry is how to run the cables from the lights to the inside of the cabin, I was hoping it could be done with a little pin-adaptation at the light end to use the current wire that carries the voltage for main-beam on the halogens to operate the shutter on the bi-xenon but obviously not :P

For the auto-levelling, if I was to add this in the future, I'd need to run yet more cables from the lights to the cabin, yes? and these aren't on the Kufatec adapter I assume. Also running the cables to the sensors on the suspension is quite difficult, no?

Good luck with the AFS retrofit

rsmck · 06-07-2009, 10:18 PM

Another idea came to me when looking at how others have done HID retrofits in various cars; the Kufatec harness has a cable which is ran to the "bordnetz" unit to control the shutter ... what's to stop the shutter solenoid being controlled from the existing +12v feed for the high-beam lights ?

I've not had a chance to look at the solenoid in detail yet but if it's a 3-wire solenoid then something like Bixenon Headlight Projector Solenoid Controller might work?

The "old" (pre 2006) Audi A6 bi-xenon headlamps used the +12v to operate the solenoid... surely this would be simpler than the Kufatec method (although if it works why wouldnt they have thought of it ?)

mross · 07-07-2009, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsmck

... what's to stop the shutter solenoid being controlled from the existing +12v feed for the high-beam lights ?

- Errors displayed on FIS and beep sounds ...

- No possibility for bordnetz recoding (for xenon)

... however, in fact you will have high beam lights then...

rsmck · 07-07-2009, 08:31 AM

Damn these over-intelligent modern cars

That gives me a thought - Will I not get errors on FIS anyway without the self-leveling in place ?

03-07-2009, 10:09 PM	#24 (permalink)
aj84 Ford Fiesta ST Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: London Posts: 237	If they do have a UK distro. great - I wanted to use them for many things but just felt scared after that attempt! Hmm interesting about the MOT - it's something I've always been told. From the 2009 testing schema: Lights The headlamps are checked for alignment with a Beam Setter. After first aligning the equipment with the vehicle, the left and right headlamp beams are checked to ensure they are correctly set so as not to dazzle other road users. Test Description All required lights are checked for: operation condition security Side lights and headlamps are the correct type and colour dip and aim. Stop lights, indicators and hazard lights* are the correct type and colour do not interfere with each other in operation driver's tell-tale works with respect to indicators, or there is an audible warning system. Rear Fog lamps** must be fitted to the centre or offside of the vehicle tell-tale must work must not be affected by other lamps and not be obscured must be red. Number plate lamps All lamps fitted must be working. Rear reflectors There must be two red reflectors fitted reasonably symmetrically, securely attached and not obscured. * Must be fitted to all vehicles first used on or after 1st April 1986, but if fitted, must be tested. ** Must be fitted to all vehicles first used on or after 1st April 1980.

03-07-2009, 08:54 PM	#21 (permalink)
rsmck Shank's Pony Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 18	@mross I tried to send this by PM but it's disabled here ... since it's maybe a little off-topic for the thread and I don't really want to hijack someone else's thread Anyway, I've obtained a couple of bi-xenon headlamps from a 2007 model (same year as my car) A6 with the correct beam patterns ... what do I need to do to get these working - is it worth obtaining the Kufatec adapter (where do the extra two wires go on that?) Through time I will probably add the self-levelling if I can get hole of the required components cheaply but for the meantime I just need the lights to work (with dipped + full beam and, obviously, indicators/turn-signals) and remain set at a fixed level. Is there a how-to guide anywhere that shows what wiring needs changing ?

03-07-2009, 09:10 PM	#22 (permalink)
aj84 Ford Fiesta ST Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: London Posts: 237	Hi all, I think theres a few questions on what goes on with the retrofits so I'll try and breakdown any queries I have seen on here: 1. You can't just add HIDs + Ballasts into the existing halogen lighting housings are these are not compliant and will flood the housing with light rather than having them directed - this obviously blinds oncoming traffic + MOT failure however...all your lights will work including manual levelling. 2. What does the Kufatec adaptor do? Well if you got halogen lighting currently, you will need the adaptor as the current plugs will >not< fit the xenon lights (providing you bought the full original OEM xenon lights) This will however, remove your manual adjustment. You do have the ability howver to manually adjust on the headlight housings itself using a philips screwdriver so if your car doesnt go up/down much in weight, you can set it so it directs centre or down and leave it as it is - obviously going up/down a hill, it wont adjust so you could blind people. This too is an MOT failure. 3. What were my problems with the kufatec? I spent weeks on trying to do this mod and in the end failed + gave up. The adaptor was fine...fitted the existing ones and converted them no problems. The problems started that despite the vag-com change to allow the car to recognise the lights, I could not get all the functionality working. Depending on code (from what I remember), the high beams (pull lever) would not work, and indicators would not work. Side lights did but kept stating bulb failure as did the indicators + beam bulbs. There were two wires that were coming out of the adaptor which I had no idea what they were for. The Kufatec instructions as usual we in German so no understanding there (plus hardly any text to convert!) From my understanding, these were the two key wires to solve the issus I was having but from the vague information I had, Audi had (what they would provide) and the guys on here and other forums...these two wires had to go to the headlight control moduel found potentially somewhere under the steering wheel. Having found my emails from Kufa, the reply was as follows: "the extra wires are for the bi xenon switch and daylight which need to be connected to the boardnet controlling unit." On replying about difficulty: "Dear It's not difficult" On further asking for information on where the hell it was...and sending themthe picture under my steering wheel# (Imageshack - cimg0805tu9.jpg) I got no reply Bang went 50 quid - wasted In the end, I got so frustrated, i took them out and sold them on ebay with the adaptors. Hopefully that may help - I know one guy on here I think has actually done it successfully but he went the whole way with the levelling etc.

03-07-2009, 10:05 PM	#23 (permalink)
rsmck Shank's Pony Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 18	1 => I know, I'm using OEM Audi Bi-Xenon headlamps with Ballast + proper optics 2 => The self-levelling never worked in the last OEM bi-xenon car i drove have never been flashed at by anyone, passed MOT every time and were adjusted correctly by the MOT centre. Not having manually-adjustable headlamps or self-levelling is not an MOT failure, although the DfT do say that "in their opinion it is not legal" to have it fitted without the self-levelling, although it does not (yet) form part of the MOT 3 => Disappointed to hear of your experience with Kufatec, I believe they now have a UK distributor so they may be able to offer more information. mross above has retrofitted them successfully with self-levelling etc and I hope he'll at least be able to advise how to connect them (with or without the kufatec kit) and get the full-beam and indicators working ... self-levelling I may well add in the future. Re the above information on my MOT experiences: My last car (VW Passat) had Bi-Xenon headlamps with no self-levelling (and a manual adjustment control that did nothing), it passed 3 MOTs in the time I had it. Another car I have access to (SAAB 9-5) has OEM Bi-Xenon headlamps and the self-leveling has not worked for many years (faulty sensor) - it has passed 4 MOTs in that condition.

03-07-2009, 10:14 PM	#25 (permalink)
rsmck Shank's Pony Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 18	I think the consensus by the MOT stations that have tested mine then must be that they are set so as not to dazzle other road users and that the aim is correct, the manual adjustment control for the halogen lights is never used by people going up a hill but rather for heavy loads which lower the rear of the vehicle and change the angle of the light, in which case my lights possibly would dazzle oncoming traffic however the car never has such a load in it... I'm only going from past experience but I would have no issue with them as long as their correctly adjusted. I'll also add that i have been on the road with my own car behind me and coming the opposite way from me (that's what I get for sharing cars with the other half ) and have never been dazzled by the light as I have been from many cars I've seen with "retrofitted hid kits" Hoping I can get these working as-is for now (assuming mross can share his knowledge ) ... and then will probably add the self-levelling at some point in the future as and when I can get the parts reasonably

05-07-2009, 09:38 AM	#27 (permalink)
rsmck Shank's Pony Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 18	Hi Mross, thanks for the details above, I'll get someone with VAGCOM (don't have it myself) to run a full scan on it this week and get the Bordnetz version... knowing my luck it'll have a B .. is there a complete list anywhere of versions are / arent compatible? I think my main worry is how to run the cables from the lights to the inside of the cabin, I was hoping it could be done with a little pin-adaptation at the light end to use the current wire that carries the voltage for main-beam on the halogens to operate the shutter on the bi-xenon but obviously not :P For the auto-levelling, if I was to add this in the future, I'd need to run yet more cables from the lights to the cabin, yes? and these aren't on the Kufatec adapter I assume. Also running the cables to the sensors on the suspension is quite difficult, no? Good luck with the AFS retrofit

06-07-2009, 10:18 PM	#28 (permalink)
rsmck Shank's Pony Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 18	Another idea came to me when looking at how others have done HID retrofits in various cars; the Kufatec harness has a cable which is ran to the "bordnetz" unit to control the shutter ... what's to stop the shutter solenoid being controlled from the existing +12v feed for the high-beam lights ? I've not had a chance to look at the solenoid in detail yet but if it's a 3-wire solenoid then something like Bixenon Headlight Projector Solenoid Controller might work? The "old" (pre 2006) Audi A6 bi-xenon headlamps used the +12v to operate the solenoid... surely this would be simpler than the Kufatec method (although if it works why wouldnt they have thought of it ?)

07-07-2009, 08:31 AM	#30 (permalink)
rsmck Shank's Pony Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 18	Damn these over-intelligent modern cars That gives me a thought - Will I not get errors on FIS anyway without the self-leveling in place ?