sufu Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 Straight from the mouth of a TfL employee: 1) The government's announcement that there will be a "debate" on whether we get Road Charging or not is a total lie - we WILL get it, because it's one of the conditions of being part of the Galileo Project (Europe's answer to GPS) - it's how they're planning on funding the whole project. 2) The road charging "trials" are also a complete lie - they are supposedly "optional" and "fair". In reality, neither is true, since the local authorities which are being targetted are effectively bribed with the promise of £1.4bn in extra Transport funding if they implement it. 3) The city-centre congestion which will be used to justify congestion charging will be in the most part, falsely generated. This is fairly easy to do, mainly with traffic light timing cycles and selective road development - and was used to great effect by TfL when introducing the London congestion charge (as well as introducing it in half term week, genius). I'm riding out the next 3-4 years then I'm out of here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 Why do people decide to "get out of here"? Why not raise or add to existing petitions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sufu Posted October 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 Petitions don't work. Protests are banned. So unless someone is able to hijack a national TV channel for a few hours, and then silence Government for a few days, the only information the general populace will receive is disinformation. This government thrives on apathy, unfortunately so does the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stooH Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 I've often suspected the whole traffic light and amendments to road layouts was a stitch up to make traffic worse to be able to penalise the motorist more, especially when you see some of the STUPID stuff they do in Portsmouth... Traffic lights 100yards apart with different phasing, perfectly working roundabouts replaced with traffic lights etc. Grr... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Petitions don't work. Protests are banned. [/ QUOTE ] Yes they do and no they're not (unless you're on about outside the Houses of Parliament, in which case they can be if you get permission). [ QUOTE ] So unless someone is able to hijack a national TV channel for a few hours, and then silence Government for a few days, the only information the general populace will receive is disinformation. This government thrives on apathy, unfortunately so does the media. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not a supporter of the current Government, but is the easiest answer to just lay back and get shafted? I'm sure as sh*t that it's not for me, but if everyone decides that they can't do anything about it, then it'll happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sufu Posted October 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 It's not for me either, but 2 people can't do anything when compared to the government! You'd need 50,000 people outside the houses of parliament to have ANY effect at all, and even then it would be spun in the media to be an "obsessive minority trying to be as disruptive as possible". Do you really think they'd allow permission for it? And petitions just allow people to ease their conscience that they're doing something about it when they're not actually doing anything, why do you think the petition website was setup in the first place, it's just a pressure release to allow people to feel as though they've made a choice. I don't know what the solution is, but I suspect it'll be bloody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayerbloke Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 Sufu, I agree 100% with everything you've said so far in this thread. Oh, and Norwich City Council actually admitted recently that all their recent decisions have been based around causing rather than reducing congestion. Coincidently, they're one of the cities attempting to get funding for further congestion charging trials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisg Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 and knowing Norwich quite well ( considering I'm a southerner !) I can tell you Norwich does not have a congestion problem............ considered against the Thames Valley/West London areas ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfer Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 [ QUOTE ] and knowing Norwich quite well ( considering I'm a southerner !) I can tell you Norwich does not have a congestion problem............ considered against the Thames Valley/West London areas ! [/ QUOTE ] That's just what the council was advised after initial survey, but they are still pursuing it, some think that Norwich are going to use the "Handout" to finance the southern by-pass and people have openly said this, Norwich of course are denying it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belchy Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 [ QUOTE ] I've often suspected the whole traffic light and amendments to road layouts was a stitch up to make traffic worse to be able to penalise the motorist more, especially when you see some of the STUPID stuff they do in Portsmouth... Traffic lights 100yards apart with different phasing, perfectly working roundabouts replaced with traffic lights etc. Grr... [/ QUOTE ] Ive noticed things like this too. in Milton Keynes (between the hockey stadium and staples for those that know the place) they have demolished a roundabout and replaced it with the worst set of traffic lights I have ever known. Before the lights were there, there were very little holdups ... and now theres holdups all the time, even on weekend mornings, when previously you could drive straight through this used to be a regular route for me, but I avoid it now. Someone got a lot of money for messing that route up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CabGirl Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 So what's to stop me buying an apartment in Geneva (or similar) and registering the cars etc. there and running around on Swiss plates? Will they still be able to charge me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfer Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 [ QUOTE ] So what's to stop me buying an apartment in Geneva (or similar) and registering the cars etc. there and running around on Swiss plates? Will they still be able to charge me? [/ QUOTE ] God knows is it worth the hassle?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarmac_Terrorist Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 I sometime fear for my job with the prospect of road charging. I suspect my company would seriously consider reducing or completely axing the external account managers. Imagine the cost for a medium sized business with 13 guys on the road each covering 30k miles per year. Imagine delivery costs for items which are currently free / cheap. The list goes on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfer Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 I think in a few years, people will start dumping the more powerful models in favor of "Economy crap", quiet were this will leave the V8/V10 ranges I am not sure, RV will be hit for sure but not yet. How will the likes of german car manufacturers cope, if this happens to there top of the range Models. Diesel power seems to be in greater demand than ever with ever increasing sales. So called "Hybrids" will crop up, but some surveys have suggested these taken over there "Life cycle" are actually MORE invironmentally UNfriendly, so some real challenges ahead. In 5 years time I will be looking to longer periods of travel abroad, so I don't care much what they do,but many of you guys/gals will have to bite the bullit, act not or loose your freedom of choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1MAC Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 [ QUOTE ] I sometime fear for my job with the prospect of road charging. I suspect my company would seriously consider reducing or completely axing the external account managers. Imagine the cost for a medium sized business with 13 guys on the road each covering 30k miles per year. Imagine delivery costs for items which are currently free / cheap. The list goes on... [/ QUOTE ] Your absolutely spot on there ( but ). Unfortunately the little faceless amoeba who work (allegedly) behind the scenes and come up with these ideas are all totally incapable of seeing the wider picture and thus coming up with ideas that might work with the minimum of impact in other areas. The imposition of road pricing will definitely have a major impact on the social and economic fabric of the areas that introduce it (and also the country as a whole). Some elements will be positive but I suspect the negative ones will be much more severe and harder to reverse. Unfortunately, that includes quite a few people losing jobs they currently enjoy and are good at, something I've put forward when discussing the proposed Manchester congestion charge. It will have a negative impact on both me and the residents of the city in general but I will be making sure I minimise my exposure in advance (thus negatively impacting those residents). I am only one but there are a lot of people in the same boat and if we all act in a similar manner then the consequences will be quite severe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_C Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 [ QUOTE ] We've got around 5 years of "free" driving left [/ QUOTE ] With a Labour government maybe, but the Tories would never introduce road pricing. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 [ QUOTE ] So what's to stop me buying an apartment in Geneva (or similar) and registering the cars etc. there and running around on Swiss plates? Will they still be able to charge me? [/ QUOTE ] ....Funny you should say that. The problem is that it's not that simple and you may be swopping one set of obstacles for another. The fundamental one being which is your 'main residence'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sufu Posted October 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] We've got around 5 years of "free" driving left [/ QUOTE ] With a Labour government maybe, but the Tories would never introduce road pricing. Ian [/ QUOTE ] I hope you're right, but unless some major skeleton from the labour parties closet get revealed on national TV I doubt the conservatives will get a chance to do anything in the 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfer Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] We've got around 5 years of "free" driving left [/ QUOTE ] With a Labour government maybe, but the Tories would never introduce road pricing. Ian [/ QUOTE ] I agree Ian, but will they get in?. Probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazza_g Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] We've got around 5 years of "free" driving left [/ QUOTE ] With a Labour government maybe, but the Tories would never introduce road pricing. Ian [/ QUOTE ] I agree Ian, but will they get in?. Probably not. [/ QUOTE ] Why don't we all vote for them then... just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] We've got around 5 years of "free" driving left [/ QUOTE ] With a Labour government maybe, but the Tories would never introduce road pricing. Ian [/ QUOTE ] I agree Ian, but will they get in?. Probably not. [/ QUOTE ] Why don't we all vote for them then... just a thought [/ QUOTE ] ....I haven't voted for many decades but I'm now thinking of voting Tory just to help stop the current govn'ment and to stop the crazy LibDems. The Tories seem to be the best of a bad bunch IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 The proposals and the intention to crack on regardless doesn't surprise me in the slightest. I have a few "sneaky" connections and from what I understand the truth and intention is sometimes far separated from the press reports anyway. A change of government just changes the stuff that isn't reported rather than change the process. I am also not sure that moving countries is the perfect solution either. Grass is always greener, other countries have their issues too. Besides, they have got to get some revenue back after the falling cigarette sales from not being able to smoke inside and raising the age limit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 ....Which seems to prove what a typically Jewish London black cabbie once said to me many years ago at the time of a General Election: "It doesn't matter who you vote for, guv, the same govn'ment always gets in" - Meaning regardless of political party label. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanG Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 I dont think petitions do work in this country. The government has forgotten that they are public servants, there to serve the UK public! They now see themselves as better than those they serve, and refuse to listen to reason regarding may facets of UK life. See the latest EU reform and reforendum farce. The problem is, as Robin says above, that there is no real oposition. The left have moved right and the right left, and they basically have very similar policies. The latest being Eco Taxation, i.e. tax everything that creates Greenhouse Gasses, whilst refusing to offer any reasonably priced alternative. Public transport is hugely expensive in the UK, and terrible. It offers little value for money and no customer service when compared with using a car. But then the UK as a people have given up complaining as they know that nothing will happen. Tube strikes, train strikes, hikes in energy prices (you wait and see what happens this winter....but thats another post), and hikes in Taxation, NI, Fuel duty etc. Yes we moan about it for a couple of days, but then lie down and take it, yet again, as we know there is nothing we can do. But this time there is, 1000 people a day are voting with their feet and leaving the UK. 57% of the country want to live abroad, this is telling the government something but they refuse to listen. Unfortunately the flip side of that is the 1500 people a day coming in to the UK, mostly unskilled and looking for hand outs, meaning that the place is destined for disaster in the longer term. I am very fortunate having the opportunity to live abroad. When I first left the UK it became very easy to see the problems, and also see the solutions. These thoughts I used to communicate to my UK friends as often as possible, but they never agreed and used to get quite angry saying 'its not that bad'. Then a few years ago, two of them also moved abroad, and suddenly they could see the same things as me, and changed their tune completely. It was very interesting to see, and now they are the ones annoying people in the pub when they go back. Fortunately, we also have allies in Europe. The French will not lie down like this, nor the Germans, Spanish or Italians. But we will..... As for TfL and Ken Livingstone, it echos a conversation I had the other day. I now believe that if you are trully talentless, criminal minded or simply can't be bothered to work, then the UK is a place where you will thrive and be hugely succesful! If on the otherhand you work hard, play by the rules,save money, invest etc, then the government take the majority of your wealth from you.... How is that fair?! I'm off......! (and intend to take citezenship of another country in 2 years time!) End of grumpy jet lagged rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botang Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 My major problem with road pricing is I cant understand how you can ever plan how much a journey will cost until you have done it. This might not seem an issue at the moment but say for example you decided to go and visit relatives, then the following month you get a bill for £50 which you werent expecting because you used the wrong roads at the wrong time. Add to this the haulage and transport industry, how can they set a price tariff if there are so many different factors involved with each road and time having a bearing on the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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