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Fly wheel and Clutch replacement?


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#1 alcatraz

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Posted 04 October 2007 - 03:01 PM

Hello! I have just been quoted £747 from 'Mr Clutch' to have my flywheel and clutch replaced. Car is a 2002 1.9TDI SPORT 130 ESTATE. Tow bar is fitted, which I might add, I have never used, but I guess it was used by the previous owner. Bought car with 105K now has 107k. Symptoms include, notchy gear change, vibration through gear knob and clutch pedal and lots of vibration noise in the lower gears. 'Mr Clutch' tell me the flywheel needs replacing. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.
VW Passat 1.9TDI Sport Estate 2002

#2 Rustynuts

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Posted 04 October 2007 - 03:11 PM

Dual mass flywheel is becoming a common replacement. Ask "Mr Clutch" what brand of flywheel and clutch he's going to fit for you. Bet it's not going to be a Sachs unit. But that's what I'd be wanting.
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#3 alcatraz

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Posted 04 October 2007 - 03:30 PM

Can't get hold of them to ask. They did give me a choice between an after market one at £225, or a VW one at £480..I chose the after market one with a 2 year guarantee. Regarding your comment about the flywheel becoming a common replacement, when 'Mr Clutch' called VW for a price, the VW chap mentioned that they had loads in stock, makes one wonder why!
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#4 Rustynuts

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Posted 04 October 2007 - 03:43 PM

Sachs clutch and flywheel about £420. VW may use LUK stuff, not sure as they change manufacturers occasionally.

Regarding the 2 year warranty... I'm dubious. "Oh, the clutch is worn sir. It's normal wear and tear so not covered by warranty." /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
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#5 Rustynuts

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Posted 04 October 2007 - 03:45 PM

Hang on! Total price £747. Clutch etc. at £225. Labour at £522. That sounds a bit steep.
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#6 alcatraz

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Posted 04 October 2007 - 03:58 PM

£69 an hour, they reckon it's an 8 hour job.
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#7 Rustynuts

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Posted 04 October 2007 - 05:06 PM

I'd check with a VW dealer and see how many hours they charge (not how much money, mind. Just how many hours). The job might only be 4 hours at VW but twice as much per hour. Sneaky buggers, garages. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/169144-ok.gif
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#8 alcatraz

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Posted 04 October 2007 - 05:16 PM

Thanks Rustynuts, might give them a call myself..although the flywheel will be twice as much. I am also going to get back to Mr Clutch and ask them why 8 hours?
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#9 meriafel

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 06:46 AM

Once you have established the labour charge, is it worth getting a price for an aftermarket Sachs or LUK flywheel?
I understand LUK flywheels are half the price VW charge. (VW were charging £125 for the complete clutch assembly a couple of years ago for the 2002 Sport 130 TDI.)

#10 alcatraz

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 04:00 PM

Just called 2 others branches of Mr Clutch, both say their labour changes are £50 an hour, my local Branch quoted me £69! Both other branches stated it was a 5 hour job, NOT an 8 hour job. Still waiting on a call back from VW. Just so I know...do my symptoms like a flywheel/ clutch problem?
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#11 Rustynuts

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 05:19 PM

Well, that's a saving of £270 straight away. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Edit: I'm not a clutch guru, but it does sound like clutch vibration which would be the flywheel.
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#12 alcatraz

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Posted 06 October 2007 - 09:54 AM

Called my local Mr Clutch and have canceled job with them, seeing as another branch a few more miles away can do the job for a 100 quid less. Going to shop around a bit more though as I am thinking a local garage might do the job even cheaper perhaps. Incedently VW have quoted me just over a 1000 quid!
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#13 alcatraz

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 08:56 AM

Just got a quote for the job at my local independent garage, the quote (£750 - £800) is much the same as Mr Clutch, but with a Sachs flywheel as opposed to the aftermarket one wich Mr Clutch were going to fit.
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#14 meriafel

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 07:39 PM

You asked whether your symptoms were likely to be the clutch?
I have a 2002 Passat Sport TDI 130 Estate, bought at 23months old with 58k. The Clutch started to judder only when cold but not on every cold morning. As it was under manufacturers warranty VW agreed to replace the clutch on condition that if it proved to be worn and the cause of the judder, I would have to pay for the labour which was quoted at £325 (2004)

The clutch was unworn and the dealer informed VW it was good for a further 60K so there was no charge. However I did suggested to them that it was more likely the judder was the dual-mass flywheel wear and that it would be prudent to replace the flywheel while it was all dismantled. VW refused but agreed to fit a new flywheel if the problem persisted.

Some weeks later again on cold mornings I had judder. The dealer had it in overnight, agreed the problem was still there and replaced the dual-mass flywheel at VW's expense.

The car has now covered 102k and again judders on start-up on certain mornings exactly as before.

I have posted this symptom before but will repeat as I have found the answer from a conversation with LUK Technical.

On certain mornings condensation will build up on the flywheel for the same reasons that a cold bottle of milk from the fridge will quickly be covered with condensation in a warm humid room. This condensation together with slight wear in the dual-mass flywheel bearing causes the judder. As soon as the flywheel is warm and the clutch friction material is dry the clutch works OK.

I have found this to be the case every time and am grateful to the LUK Technical advisor who first noticed the problem when he previously worked for Rover.

Allowing the clutch to judder will do added dammage to the whole assembly so just slip it a little to burn off the moisture and you will find the problem has gone. I find I can go for weeks in the summer with no judder and even when we have a week of we weather have no judder. It is just those mornings when the flywheel is cold from standing overnight, the air is moisture laden, the temperature changes and it condenses on to the colder flywheel. The advisor said that the problem became frequent when asbestos was removed from the friction material.

Last night was warm here in Wales, the car was covered in 'dew' this morning, the clutch juddered on take up but no further problems all day. My daughter has our 1994 Passat GL Estate TDI with original clutch (non dual-mass) that has now covered 203K so it this judder is due to dual-mass with wear in its bearing.......zzzzzzzz!

These symptoms do not seem to correspond with yours so I would seek further advice before having the whole lot replaced. Have you had the brake fluid changed as it should be every two years AND did you also bleed the clutch hydraulics at the same time? I would do a complete change of fluid before you start on the clutch.

#15 alcatraz

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 10:40 AM

Thankyou meriafel for your detailed response. The latest on this ongoing saga, is that my local friendly mechanic has told me, that he thought the car drove and sounded ok, yes, he said there appears to be some vibration and he thought the Flywheel ‘could’ be wearing, but he would live with it. Basically I find the vibration and notchy gear change very unpleasant and am not sure if I can ‘live’ with it. The quote is £757, this will include a Sachs flywheel. The other point I have to consider is that this may or not solve the problem! So I am left with a 50/50 choice of shelling out £757 on what appears to be a ‘maybe’! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
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#16 meriafel

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 06:53 PM

As your car is the same as mine, presumably with the 6 speed gearbox I am interested in your eventual cure.
Reading your symptoms again and bearing in mind that you have only had the car for 2k miles;

'Notchy Gear Change'. The 6-speed box is notchy compared with the 5-speed I had in my previous 1998 TDi sport Estate.

'Lots of vibration noise in lower gears'. There a many parts under the bonnet including the engine cover, pipes etc on bulkhead that can create lots of vibration and noise. Try pressing on many of of these components on tickover and secure with cable ties. Check also the undertrays and clips etc which are often missing. Replace the engine cover mounting rubbers anyway.

'Vibration through gear knob and clutch pedal'. Have the engine/gearbox mounts checked. Has the car been accident damaged at the front and not had the engine mounts replaced?

Was the car like this when you bought it as you have only covered 2k? Is there no comeback with the seller? Let me know how you get on.

(Incidentally, we had rain and mist overnight yet I had no judder this morning as conditions weren't right for condensation!)

#17 cruiser647

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 07:37 PM

When you start the car, do you put your foot on the clutch?

It doesn't take much to see that the problems of three little people doesn't add up to a hill of beans in this crazy world.
 


#18 alcatraz

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 07:20 AM

meriafel, thanks again for your comments. Checked just about everything and the problem is still there. Decided to bite the bullet and the car is in the garage today to have a new clutch and flywheel fitted. I will post the results when they are in! Interesting comment about the 6 speed being notchy, looks like that's one I may have to live with! Cheers.
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#19 activa

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 07:34 AM

I would say that your problem is gonna be cured when it comes back today.

I had this problem,and it got worse and worse until it became really hard to get into gear and used to shake like crazy on tickover.

One flywheel later and haven't once had the problem re-occur.When my mechanic removed the old flywheel you could see just how worn the rubber was.

#20 alcatraz

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 12:07 PM

Sootchucker, I hope it does the trick! Cheers.
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