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Golf GTI or Focus ST-3?


bucki3
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Hi all, newbie here! Been lurking in the forum for a while and think its great!

I'm coming into a bit of a problem - the better half has allowed me to get a new car but i cant decide between the golf GTI and ST3!

I want a good driving experiance but to be comfy on long journeys - i do approx 15k miles a year and i know the ST can be a bit heavy on the old juice in comparison to the GTI but its not putting me off!

The differance in price is not really an issue, but is the GTI worth the extra money? ie lesser spec for more money? What are your opinions guys - what would you buy having had a GTI for some time?

With the discount dealers are offering just now it seems a great buy! I'd be looking at a candy white 3 door manual, xenons, 18" Monzas, winter pack, cruise, 6 disc plus soundpack and possibly doing a revo remap?

Arrgghh - all too much!! confused.gif

Your help is much appreciated gents! beerchug.gif

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I know thr GTI IS the better car, better quality, refinement and for second hand value but its that little demon on my shoulder that is egging me on to get the ST, that boy trying to get out from inside. If i could get the GTI to make the same noise as the ST it would be a no brainer....... How do the Milteks cat back sound on the GTI? I dont want too intrusive on the cabin, just to know its there - like the ST!

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Well, clearly you will get a biased view in a Golf GTI sub forum.

It's a very personal view but I prefer the character of the ST to that of the GTI. (Having thus far driven neither I should add).

Doing 15k a year there will be times you just want a car that's easy to live with and reasonably economical just cruising - the Golf does that better.

But the ST excels when you want to have a B road thrash and you hear that snap, crackle pop of the exhaust.

And again a personal opinion, but there's only so much you can do to an inline 4 pot exhaust wise to make it sound better. Whereas the 5 pot of the ST just sounds effortlessly cool. grin.gif

Really hard choice, that in the end comes down to personal preference. If you were buying entirely with your head you would probably choose the Golf, but you should never buy a hot hatch entirely with your head!

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How long do you plan to keep your new car for? Some guys on here have covered over 40k miles and and still enthusiastic and holding on to them. In my (possibly slightly biased) opinion, I think the GTI is the more appealing / desirable choice if you plan to keep the car 18 months +

Just a more 'grown up' package IMO (Grown up in relation to other hot hatches - not the drivers maturity . attitude!!) grin.gif

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[ QUOTE ]

Biased view but GTI every time. Especially if you're doing a few miles, I know you say that the petrol doesn't bother you but at todays prices (which will probably continue to rise) it can start to get a bit irritating...

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Couldn't agree more with StooH, but there again, I'm biased as hell! Enjoy whichever you chose 169144-ok.gif

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5 years or so, its going to have to put up with a new born trying to reduce it to its component parts when sitting in the back!

My heads GTI but deep down the ST is scratching the itch, i just dont want to get the ST then 6 months later looking at a candy white GTI thinking - i wish...

Its the build quality that i am worried about the ST, rattles and door seal creeks etc

I agree with you garcon but i was always told to use my head before all else!!

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I know from a few people who've gone to a Focus ST from more prestigious cars (BMWs etc) that although the build quality isn't quite up to the standards of the top German marques it is still pretty good. And there have been plenty of reports of squeaks and rattles from GTI owners.

Mind you, as Tarmac Terrorist says, there are also plenty of GTI owners who've kept theirs for 2-3 years and 40k+ miles and still love it.

5 years at 15k a year is 75k miles. That's getting into long term durability rather than just initial build/trim quality. There's also the 'how good will it look in 5 years' point. Have to admit, it's starting to stack up in favour of the GTI.

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The ST is a far cheaper car,with prices taking a tumble in recent months and makes a good second hand buy with 06/56 plate cars changing hands for as little as £13200 your not going to get a GTI for that.Have just sold my 05 DSG 5 DOOR GTI to a dealer for £14850.The 2.5 litre 5 cylinder engine turbocharged unit that normally powers Volvos (Ford owns Volvo). It's an excellent choice, as it delivers strong performance from low down the rev range, right through to the red line, when many turbocharged engines need 3000rpm before there's any real thrust. An added bonus of using the five-cylinder engine is the characterful noise it produces. Cruise along in top gear and it is refined and hushed, but the moment you decide to up the ante, it delivers a fruity growl accompanied by a subtle whistling from the turbo. A six-speed gearbox is the only transmission on offer and has clearly been developed to please the sportier driver.The DSG for the vw is great and makes a pleasure to drive.

at the end of the day it is your choice but they are both good cars if not different in some ways to own...............

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[ QUOTE ]

Go on gut feel, what do you really want and what is going to make you happiest driving. Don't settle for the sensible nor 2nd best.

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.... 169144-ok.gif

Make sure you get a decent long test drive in each and then I think you'll know which you prefer. Only YOU can decide.

Definitely include a DSG version of the GTI - It's much much more than an automatic - I now drive mine 'manually' with the paddle shifters 95% of the time but popping her into D-mode (auto) for traffic jams and town is perfect.

5-door version GTI is more practical for extra passengers and loads. The GTI is a true allrounder.

I'm one of those guys T_T refers to: Over 40k miles, 3 years in August, and still grinning and enjoying every mile. Mine's fairly extensively modified though cool.gif.

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They equally loose about the same in pound notes wise over the years. Well infact i have done the figues in the past and the GTI looses more pound notes. %figures and statistics are used by politisions and the devil for a reason.

Remember also that the focus gets a facelift about now. The reason for the reduced value in the past couple of months of the current car, Also remember though that by the end of this year the Golf mk6 will be out so the same will happen to the golf.

The focus is a great car a mate has one and has had one for a while now and is in love with it as much as any GTI owner here is with there GTI. I love the noise but im a diehard audi 5pot fan so of cause im going to like its cousin in the ford. You get more for your money imo with the ford but if image and badge are important to you then the GTI will apeal more. I also in real live don't think theres much in it mpg or running cost wise either.

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[ QUOTE ]

They equally loose about the same in pound notes wise over the years. Well infact i have done the figues in the past and the GTI looses more pound notes. % figures and statistics are used by politisions and the devil for a reason.

Remember also that the focus gets a facelift about now. The reason for the reduced value in the past couple of months of the current car, Also remember though that by the end of this year the Golf mk6 will be out so the same will happen to the golf.

The focus is a great car a mate has one and has had one for a while now and is in love with it as much as any GTI owner here is with there GTI. I love the noise but im a diehard audi 5pot fan so of cause im going to like its cousin in the ford. You get more for your money imo with the ford but if image and badge are important to you then the GTI will apeal more. I also in real live don't think theres much in it mpg or running cost wise either.

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169144-ok.gif

The depreciation argument is always overplayed. As Snoopy says, in the real world there often isn't much in it when actual £s are considered and you look at actual prices paid (as opposed to list prices) and actual trade in values of equivalent several year old models. I posted something a while back on the A3 forum to not quite prove but back up the point (comparing a Focus ST to an A3 2.0T).

You do have to remember that the hotter Fords have some kind of following which helps used prices a little when compared to regular Fords.

Having said all that, if I were in your shoes, I would probably go for the Golf (even though I have an ST at the moment). The Focus is more fun over a shorter term, especially if tweaked a little, but I would imagine the Golf is a better ownership proposition over the 5 year period you are talking about.

Both will be broadly equal in reliability - Fords are getting better and the oily bits are Volvo and in a very low state of tune so should bode well.

As for other elements:

Looks - personal

Performance - Focus slightly ahead

Fuel - Golf by a decent margin

Sound - Focus all the way

Interior - Golf but ST is acceptable

Handling/Ride - Probably Golf as an overall, unless you have the ST fitted with Eibachs (supposedly a lot more sporty with & a lot faster around the 'Ring with).

Image - Golf but then you pay a lot for it

Dealers - Both pretty ordinary I suspect.

[ALL IMHO]

A few other things to keep in mind about the ST:

1] If you want a new one, it isn't out yet and you might not get hold of one until anywhere between April and June+ (unless you go for an ST500 - but I wouldn't!)-- I'd go for a 1 yr old, low miles one for @ £15k

2] ST3 is only a 4 seater thanks to Recaro rear bench. Costs more to buy new but isn't worth any more than an ST2 second hand as a result.

3] RS Focus might just impact ST values - if it ever comes out and depending on spec/price.

4] Focus is always at risk from Chav attack a few years down the line (but then the Golf isn't exactly 100% immune either).

I think overall you should listen to the advice on here (and possibly get some from the ST owners club forum as well), drive both and then go with what you feel is the right choice 169144-ok.gif

You can always change a year or two down the line. You might also want to look at some alternatives (e.g. lightly used S3 & others).

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As RR says above - you really need to have a long test drive in a DSG GTi and see if you love the DSG or not, compared to a manual.

If you don't like the DSG then the choice may be close, but if you love the DSG then there's only one choice 169144-ok.gif.

Even Jeremy Clarkson likes the DSG box, so it must be worth a test drive. smile.gif

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Well, i spent my day in all my local garages blagging test drives in both cars and thought i would give you my thoughts.

The ST. I cant lie, i was utterly impressed with the car, I spent around 3 hours in total drivig over all different types of terrain and found it comfy, ride is great, not thrashy and no torque steer at all ( i was suprised ) when giving it the berrys and managed to get a MPG figure of 18... As my school reports mentioned - Must try harder. The noise is absolutly fantastic, when cruising nothin enters the cabin but when your foot goes down that audi like growl really does make you smile! The quality of the cabin is also good, the 2 cars i had driven did not have any sqeeks or rattles but the indicator stalks and washer ones ( ie the bits you touch all the time ) were straight out the bog standard 1.4 and felt cheap. The interior is well laid out and is good to the eye.

GTI - i found the ride slightly harder to the ST, seats were excellant but i did prefer the leather in the ST - i know you can get it in the GTI but is it worth the £1500 premium? Cabin quality is better, no doubt, the things you touch feel more durable and is a nice place to be, especially for long journeys. I managed 24 MPG on my test which is much better to the ST but it just didn't feel as quick - what like is the revo remap, worth its money? No doubt it is a great car but doesn't feel as special as the ST! I had a test with the DSG also and thought it was good but i found it indecisive at low speeds, especially when coming to a junction, in 2nd and then putting my foot down to go, it kicks down and then throws you forward like you've been rear ended with a truck! I do think i would miss a manual after a month or so! So i decided to talk numbers and the dealer said he could give me a 7% discount will the options i asked for - 3 door, white, 18's, winter pack, xenons, cruise, 6 CD + soundpack.

I know the GTI will be better over a 5 year term and yes its better quality and yes its a great car.

So.. if i am to put an order in - is the laether worth it, does the milltek cat back improve the soundtrack and how does the car handle the extra power from the revo remap - wheelspin, torque steer etc?

Thanks for all your input so far - its good to get opinions of people who have had the car for some time!

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Sounds to me like your mind is already set on the focus...

Remember this will be a brand new car, not many have the balls to mod a brand now car with zorsts and revo chips. I certainly did not. I wanted about 14 months before fitting a Milltek turbo back zorst and I have to say it does sound great and there are two options and to how you want it to sound.

For me I look at the focus's on the road and just don't think it looks as good or as well designed. That for me if there is so much similarities in how it drive would clinch it.

Hmm, tricky one mate.

All I know is that a white GTI would look awesome.

Quick thought.... have you thought about the edition 30? - more power and also in white wink.gif

Source the euro only version of the monza IIs in black like this:

n590480219_1425224_5346.jpg

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[ QUOTE ]

So.. if i am to put an order in - is the laether worth it, does the milltek cat back improve the soundtrack and how does the car handle the extra power from the revo remap - wheelspin, torque steer etc?

Thanks for all your input so far - its good to get opinions of people who have had the car for some time!

[/ QUOTE ]

....Yes, the Milltek greatly enhances the soundtrack without being at all boy-racer sounding - It's quiet until you work the revs. I've had mine on for 40k miles. If you are going for a remap it's better long term planning to get the Milltek Hi-flow (aka Turbo-back) but be warned it's a slippery slope!!

Also mine is Revo Stage1 and even with other mods, wheelspin etc is not any more of a problem than in the standard GTI - It's all down to driving style.

With DSG it's best to use M-mode and use the paddles just like a manual. You can also tiptronically use the floor stick.

The Slippery Slope Guide For Beginners This link is well out of date but might give some helpful info. I'm even further down/up that slope now! grin.gif

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Oxfordlad - the ED30 was really tempting but the interior is marmite, and it really does not float my boat which is why the standard GTI was on the cards. Looking at the picture though, the GTI is the better looking car, especially in white... I think a call to the dealer in the morning is of order - push a little harder for a better deal!!

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[ QUOTE ]

..... but its that little demon on my shoulder that is egging me on to get the ST, that boy trying to get out from inside. If i could get the GTI to make the same noise as the ST it would be a no brainer....... How do the Milteks cat back sound on the GTI? I dont want too intrusive on the cabin, just to know its there - like the ST!

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds to me like you should consider the Golf R32 ? grin.gif

The R32 would suit all your requirements based on your comments above, especially if mpg is not a consideration 169144-ok.gif

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