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A3 2.0 TDI DSG Hesitation


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#1 JonnyTDI

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 11:43 PM

I know this is going to sound negative, but I just wanted to run this past people.

I have a May 2006 2.0 TDI DSG S/Line, fully specced up (Bose, Sunroof, Phatnoise, 18 Spoke, Leather etc. etc.)

Turbo has been replaced. DSG Box has been replaced.

Reading reviews people with pre May 2006 DSGs all rave about the "instant response" and smoothness of the DSG, and people after about this time all mention things like "a second or two hesitation" when pulling away.

Friend of mine had a 2.0T DSG, and was really impressed with the response, even I thought it was nigh on immediate response from the engine and the DSG box.

He then took mine out, and pulling out said "Why is there a delay" - almost as though the power goes on / off the on again. Having had long and fairly impotent discussions with Audi about the hesitation the head techy mentioned that there had been an update where "you have to push the pedal a bit further" before the power comes in to protect the gearbox. My car just jerks all over the place (obviously an exaggeration). I wonder if a re-map would "take the delay away". This is really not a "point and squirt" car it is a "squirt, point, wait for it .. GO" car. You can't pop into spaces.

Oh well, just wanting opinions on the pre May 2006 vs post May 2006 DSG diesels.

#2 maersk

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 11:54 AM

Mine was 2004 and (ahem) both of its gearboxes and their associated software (cough) one 2004 and the other 2006 agve instant pickup. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROLLEY~14.GIF
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#3 smokeyjoe

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 07:18 PM

My 2004 TDI with DSG hesitates and jumps a lot. I had a 1.8TFSI DSG on loan recently and it was a totally different experience - really smooth and responsive.

Dealer told me it was diesel turbo lag. I've just got used to it.

I'm replacing it soon with another 2.0 TDI but manual this time.
-------------------------------------------------
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#4 JonnyTDI

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 01:39 PM

Interesting ...

Maersk ... you had a new gearbox too, but response was "immediate" - mine (ignoring from cold, as mine takes about 3 seconds to actually get going from cold) from stand-still most definitely hesitates.

Having had a Golf 150 Diesel Manual before, surely, the bollox about turbo lag is just the fact that the DSG is not adapted for the way the diesel delivers the power. There is no way to get any significant amount of power under 2k revs - surely the s/w should give a few revs for pulling away appropriately.

Anyways, thanks for the responses, seems just like marmite

#5 maersk

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 08:26 PM

Yep, totally immediate on both. It was a crap change from 2 to 3 that caused the box change.

Instant pick up in all gears and from a standstill.
I still miss the box on my new car.

If A4 had the (soon to be announced 7 speed longitudenal DSG then I would have had it. Multitronic (AKA DAF 1970) auto does not do it for me. Too much engine rpm and no go, sounds like the clutch is slipping as you move off, althought the in gear acceleration is good.
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#6 JonnyTDI

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Posted 24 January 2008 - 03:26 PM

Well, I really want someone with an "immediate" response from a 2.0 TDI DSG to take mine out and see if it is the same or not :S

I am based in East Sussex, so if anyone (insured) wants to take mine for a ... stutter, then give me a shout. Alternatively, can you recommend someone who could check out mine with an objective (perhaps monitored) run to see when the power "comes / goes / comes".

#7 hammers

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 02:43 PM

Hello,

I have been experianceing the same problem with my 2.0tdi (170) DSG S_LINE. I picked mine up last March and had nothing but problems with the thing from about 500miles in. The seats are distorted, then changed a different leather put on the driver seat which is ok, but the same as before leather placed on the passenger seat which has distorted again.(due to the heated seats). Looks crap for a list price £28k with all options. Any way the gear box. In my opinion the worst box i have ever driven. At first it made a whinning noise when coasting at 7mph, this was fixed twice by the technicians by adapting the cluctch or clutches. That was over 7k miles ago now, on 16k by the way. At this time it was becoming very shuddery and irresponsive. Very indecisive when light bracking to come to a stop. Not being able to decide if I was going to still whck my foot down and accelerate or stop. i.e go from 2nd to 3rd or 2nd to 1st. Which makes for an unpleasent driving experiance. After the second clutch adaption the technician said i should have opted for the standard auto, something they do not offer now. Last friday I thought i would give it one last try at audi after not getting use to the gear box some 7K later. Another technician said the same as the last. He said they are good for hammering about the shop but every day normal driving especially London driving no no. As they dont other a normal auto any more im afraid to say im getting rid. Im going for a 330CD Auto M SPORT. More money but the fuel econimy is the same. The thing is I really love the car its great at in gear acceleration and very refined on the motor way but for town driving i cant stand it.

I have zenons, 18" 20 spoke alloys, arm rest front and rear, bluetooth in arm rest, leather, heated and lumber seats front, cruise control, bose speakers,pearlescent black, folding mirrors, multi function steering wheel.

#8 JonnyTDI

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 08:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hello,

<snip>
Any way the gear box. In my opinion the worst box i have ever driven. At first it made a whinning noise when coasting at 7mph, this was fixed twice by the technicians by adapting the cluctch or clutches. That was over 7k miles ago now, on 16k by the way. At this time it was becoming very shuddery and irresponsive. Very indecisive when light bracking to come to a stop. Not being able to decide if I was going to still whck my foot down and accelerate or stop. i.e go from 2nd to 3rd or 2nd to 1st. Which makes for an unpleasent driving experiance. After the second clutch adaption the technician said i should have opted for the standard auto, something they do not offer now. Last friday I thought i would give it one last try at audi after not getting use to the gear box some 7K later. Another technician said the same as the last. He said they are good for hammering about the shop but every day normal driving especially London driving no no. As they dont other a normal auto any more im afraid to say im getting rid. Im going for a 330CD Auto M SPORT. More money but the fuel econimy is the same. The thing is I really love the car its great at in gear acceleration and very refined on the motor way but for town driving i cant stand it.

I have zenons, 18" 20 spoke alloys, arm rest front and rear, bluetooth in arm rest, leather, heated and lumber seats front, cruise control, bose speakers,pearlescent black, folding mirrors, multi function steering wheel.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems like very, very similar symptoms, and responses from Audi - although they didn't even suggest clutch adaptation.

I can make the car "lurch" on demand, even ... not on demand, and for 28k, not impressed.

Had a Golf TDI 150BHP Manual, which was FAR better for response and rev range (red line at 5,200 and pulled all the way).

There is a "dead spot" at around 2,700 RPM (check out some of the Power Graphs on Bluefin etc.), under 1,200 RPM the car has NO idea what to do in D, S or even Manual mode. As far as motorway driving goes, sure stuff it in 5th and fine, however, 9:15 runs on the M25, with stop starts and it becomes a frustrating nightmare (if you see a filthy A3 2.0 TDI with blacked out windows ...).

There seems to be a "no idea" region when pulling away ... almost like a non-linear power delivery ... nothing, nothing then ... too much! No subtlety. So, you end up just flooring it everywhere accepting the lurch. Again Audi response is "Well, this is what the TDI DSG's are like" - crap answer. Unfortunately, I am 2 years into a 4 year company car scheme with NO option to come out (the contract is with my employer, the car is not mine, the lease company "report to my employer" not me, Audi nice and placating, but ... still a real downer for such money.

The Audi Technician did mention a "fix" that went into the s/w which he described as (from the notes) "The driver will have to press the accelerator a bit more" ... probably to protect the delicate workings of the DSG (although I have been fairly rough with the car, it just about hangs together - new Turbo and New Gearbox so far, along with a front left suspension that sounds like a creaking ghost mansion door).

Still, whine off : /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Thinking a re-map will put someone elses idea of engine management on might have to be considered.

#9 hammers

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 11:05 PM

JonnyTDI,

seems we have very similar problems or dislikes of the DSG mated to the 2.0TDI. I have just ordered a 335CD which I have test drove and comes as standard with a semi-auto. Drives alot better went on long test drive. 2 weeks ago i had two new tyres put on the front of my A3, uniroyals. The car is driving like a dream. I really dont know what to say after nearly a year of crap, finally when i have done something about it (ordered a new car) the a3 is driving like everybody else talks about. No hesitation no juddering no undecisive gear selection. Still i think its a little to late though. Now the crapping driving has gone. When i first got the car there was a funny rattling werring noise coasting about 7mph. Whilst the crappy driving experiance was about, this disapeared to just a vibration. This has now reapeared. So still think the car must go. The whole new car transaction costing a small fortune as the missus is insisting she also has a new motor. But still only have to pay 1K negative equity on the A3, just a bigg deposit on the new BM. Never change my cars so early but what are you suppose to do drive a crap car for aznother 2 years. Lucky for me mine is personal so can get rid, just have to pay for it.

Would you not be able to swap is direct for another audi? i would suggest a manual as i could not see a standard auto in the new A3 'build your own' thingy. I read on one of these pages some months ago who also wasnt happy with his audi got a new car only had to pay some deposit, no neagative equity.

#10 CarMad

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Posted 20 February 2008 - 11:18 PM

I had the 2.0T A3 until recently and it was instant response except when quickly but into drive when it would shunt a bit but they all do that.

I drove a TDI DSG and it seems to be a very different experience than the petrol's. Maybe its the software or the torque differences I don't know but they aren't the same. I guess its what they might call a 'feature' of the diesels. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

#11 Slidingsash

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 10:19 PM

Mine's the same and it's obviously the turbo lag IMHO. Has anyone read in the manual how to engage the "Launch Program" with the DSG. I've read it but never tried it. (Turn off ESP, left foot brake, rev to 3250rpm and then let go......) Does this work?

#12 JonnyTDI

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 04:14 PM

The symptom I am having is not turbo lag.

This is at standstill, foot off brake, foot on accelerator and "bang" no subtlety just a "thump" at 1,300 revs (turbo starts kicking in about 2,000). If I take my foot off the brake, and wait, then you can FEEL the power come on, then go off, then come on again - bit like being sea sick really.

Launch control is only on the 3.2 (may be on the Petrol 2.0T .. unsure).

#13 maersk

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 01:20 PM

NOT on diesels
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#14 Marab

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 05:59 PM

Beg to differ. Tried launch control on my 2.0Tdi and it works. I've only done it once because I can't see any use for it other than shreding tyres?
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#15 Slidingsash

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 09:28 PM

Thought I'd gone mad....According to my manual, it's available on any modal with a DSG box.

#16 CarMad

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 12:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Thought I'd gone mad....According to my manual, it's available on any modal with a DSG box.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some don't have the software to do it, its NOT all DSG models. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/169144-ok.gif

#17 CarMad

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 12:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The symptom I am having is not turbo lag.

This is at standstill, foot off brake, foot on accelerator and "bang" no subtlety just a "thump" at 1,300 revs (turbo starts kicking in about 2,000). If I take my foot off the brake, and wait, then you can FEEL the power come on, then go off, then come on again - bit like being sea sick really.

Launch control is only on the 3.2 (may be on the Petrol 2.0T .. unsure).

[/ QUOTE ]

Mine used to do this. Quickly put it in drive and not give it time and the transmission would shunt quite badly. All the DSG's do it, you need to allow the clutch plates to bite to first.

I used to put it into D and hold it on the brake before the lights change and I'd know that the car had got to the bite point ready to take off. Not a great fix but its the best your going to get I think. Its been mentioned before that some companies haven't gone for DSG because of this step off issue that full auto's don't suffer from. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/169144-ok.gif

#18 lenny007

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 04:55 PM

Mine's in at the stealers next Thursday/Friday.

Changes in the first 3 gears are intermittently "thumping". Almost like an engine mount was gone.

Anyone had anything similar?

#19 maersk

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 03:08 PM

YES!

Especially when cold the change from 2 to 3 was violent and induced thumping.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sekret.gif


New 'box on its way I fear, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/znaika.gif
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#20 JonnyTDI

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 03:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Mine's in at the stealers next Thursday/Friday.

Changes in the first 3 gears are intermittently "thumping". Almost like an engine mount was gone.

Anyone had anything similar?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just out of interest, when was yours built?

If cold, I can put the accelerator down and ... nothing, further, further ... then wheel spin :-/

Odd that I seem to hear rattling :S, just like a missing engine mount.

The only thing I can compare it too is an old Morriss 1300 GT I had and managed to shear off the gearbox from the engine, and when letting out the clutch that thumped big time - complete new engine seemed to sort that.

Still, mine in to the Dealers on Friday ... err no Monday as they had to cancel Friday on Wednesday.

As my 10 yr old says "FIX MY PROBLEM"




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