RedRobin Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 I had the chance of trying them out on my own GTI at Bruntingthorpe last year but didn't have time - I wish I had made time now! They have a very unusual tread pattern, slightly reminiscent of the excellent Goodyear F1's (non assymetric). Here is some info I have found: Ultra-High Performance Radial The Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta is the newest ace in the Ultra High Performance (UHP) segment. The Sessanta is based on the strong points of the Ultrac series and has been optimised even further to give very good steering and handling characteristics. Giugiaro Design has given the Ultrac Sessanta an innovative design, with a line pattern that clearly shows that performance comes first. Parametric design - from the drawing board to the shelf. The Ultrac Sessanta is designed parametrically. This means that the tread construction, shape and contours are optimised for every size using mathematical formulae based on design parameters. Each size of the Ultrac Sessanta therefore offers maximum design quality. Our Design Centre uses its enormous creativity to design treads. Co-operation with third parties offers a constant stream of fresh impulses. The partnership with the Italian Company Giugiaro Design for the development of the Sportrac serves as a shining example. The name Sessanta refers to the sixty years of Vredestein's existence in Enschede. In tribute to Vredestein's unique collaborative partnership with Giugiaro Design, "sixty" will be written in Italian: sessanta. FEATURES & BENEFITS - Innovative design and sophisticated line pattern give excellent performance and unique appearance. - Handling Tuned Tread Compound (HTTC) Gives extremely high tracking power, allowing faster cornering and measured correction of the car is possible on bends. - HTS+ (Handling Tuned Sidewall) principle with robust outer shoulders and sturdy sidewalls allows a very direct steering feel Optimal contact with the road surface. - Two rayon carcass layers make the tyre stable and sturdy during handling. Maximum resistance to lateral forces, and stays more controllable in the most critical situations. - Treadwear - 280 Traction - AA Temperature - A They should be fitted as shown and so that the text "INNER SIDE" on the tyre wall is not visible when on the car. They are an "Assymetric" treaded tyre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 That last pic is confusing the hell out of me. Is it showing correct and incorrect. What is alpha? Surely it can't be like that for left and right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted February 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 Well, I don't know what the 'alpha' means but the fitting pattern is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VRO6MO Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 [ QUOTE ] That last pic is confusing the hell out of me. Is it showing correct and incorrect. What is alpha? Surely it can't be like that for left and right [/ QUOTE ] Im as as Scotty, isnt the deep grooves meant to channel out as much water as possible - it look likes the opposite tyre will do the opposite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser647 Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 Deep groove on the inside. How much were they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nordberg Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 I've had both Vredestein Sportracs and Ultracs and they were both far too hard. Slippy as hell in the wet and pretty average in the dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted February 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 The inside tread on each tyre is designed for most water disposal. The Sessanta is different from the Sportrac and Ultrac, isn't it? - I'd rather wait for some reviews of actual usage of Sessantas before passing judgement. ------------- I just found this: They're supposed to be pretty good in the wet too, leaving other tyres "in their wake " according to EVO magazine: Coming a highly comendable 2nd place in this years EVO tyre tests scoring an overall 95.3%, the Ultrac Sessanta was the choice of both EVO testers, Jethro Bovingdon and John Barker, on the road being praised for their absorbent, quiet ride and smooth, nicely detailed steering. From EVO's wet handling test 'it was the Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta that proved the tester's favourite. "Superb," said Bovingdon. "Heavy steering but backed up by strong turn-in and the ability to give more bite if you need it. Very good traction"' From EVO's aquaplane testing 'In the straight line test, the majority of the tyres are within 5% of the Dunlop's performance, but on the wetted curve the spread is much higher, though this is largely due to an exceptional performance from the Vredestein. A star performer in the wet handling tests, the 'Giugiaro Design' Ultrac Sessanta leaves the rest in it's wake, the Bridgestone being the best of the rest some 17% down." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figure11 Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 I agree with the others those tyre are set up wrong. They are both fitted to the rims for the same side of the car. turn the right hand wheel through 180 in the x axis and there identical. If they're Asymmetric there should be left and right tread patterns. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted February 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 [ QUOTE ] I agree with the others those tyre are set up wrong. They are both fitted to the rims for the same side of the car. turn the right hand wheel through 180 in the x axis and there identical. If they're Asymmetric there should be left and right tread patterns. Mike [/ QUOTE ] ....Well, far from me to debate the subject, this is the Vredestein web page I took the tyre layout info from: VREDESTEIN FAQs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHA Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 When I was looking at Yokohama Parada Spec 2 tyres they had a similar tread pattern and I was concerned/confused about the fitment of them. But it seems to be how they should be fitted, but it does look wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nordberg Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 With respect, I would have thought a tyre designer might know a bit more about how tyres work than anyone on here..... Of course I might be wrong.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHA Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 [ QUOTE ] With respect, I would have thought a tyre designer might know a bit more about how tyres work than anyone on here..... Of course I might be wrong.... [/ QUOTE ] Do you not know how much some people know!!!! They are fonts of knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve2 Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 so what does Parametric design mean and asseymetric mean in relation to tyres as the website says that they are a Parametric design Optimal design quality: profile, construction, design and contours selected according to mathematical formulae for each size Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 Parametrics help get you into Ambulances and drive you to hospital. I thought everyone knew that. Nuuuuuur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figure11 Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 [ QUOTE ] With respect, I would have thought a tyre designer might know a bit more about how tyres work than anyone on here..... Of course I might be wrong.... [/ QUOTE ] Tyre manufactures are the fonts of all knowledge tyre wise. Ad Agencies that take their products photograph them and produce flyers know feck all! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted February 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 ....Okay, but if Vredestein have really got these tyres all wrong it will greatly compromise their whole company and all their products. The proof of the pudding will be in the eating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 [ QUOTE ] Well, I don't know what the 'alpha' means but the fitting pattern is correct. [/ QUOTE ] I can't believe that the above pic is correct. I'd expect it each side to be a mirror of the other : N.B. I may have chosen the wrong tyre to flip! Who ever's car that is then i'd encourage them to send it to the Vredestine asap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted February 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 ....So, Vredestein's own illustration which I posted earlier, and which matches the black GTI tyre setup, is wrong? I agree that it looks wrong (or unfamiliar), but I'm more inclined to believe Vredenstein's web site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figure11 Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 With symmetrical tyres (in theory) in a straight line water is extruded either side of the wheel equally and the forces are theoretically equal across the foot print of the tyre. Asymmetric tyres tend to extrude water to one side with the leading edge of the tread picking up the water and forcing it out the side at the end of the tread line. The tyres on that car will throw the water out to the same side with the right side throwing water under the car! What’s more because the leading edge of the cross tyre tread pattern is wider than the training edge as the water is forced under the car the channels with become inundated and water will come out of the channels early which is the primary cause of aqua planning. Once the treads cant remove the water the tyres rise up on top of it.. I for one would be worried if I fitted asymmetric tyres and they looked like that. This site gives an explanation. http://www.ctyres.co.uk/tyre_info/asimetrical_tyres.html It does say they can be used anywhere on the car! I’m now going to start looking at peoples tyre to se what set ups they have! I have directional tyres on mine. What have others got? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted February 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 ....I see your logic, Mike. I'm going to try and find out more from Vredestein themselves and if I'm wrong I'll be the first to say so. I'm interested in these tyres and want to know how they should be fitted safely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Bangle Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 A did quick post about these tyres are few weeks ago asking if anyone had used them as they came second in the EVO Tyre test: EVO 2007 Test: The Car: VW Golf GTI MK5 The Track: Bridgestone European Proving Ground - Rome Tyre Size: 225/45 R17 Y Anyways very quick summary: Tyres tested: 1. Bridgestone Potenza RE050-A 2. Continental Contisport Contact 3 3. Dunlop Sport Maxx 4. Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymmetric 5. Kumho Ecsta STP KU31 6. Michelin Pilot Sport 2 PS2 7. Pirelli PZERO Nero 8. Vredestein ULTRAC SESSANTA 9. Yokohama S.DRIVE Wet Handling: Lap Times: 1. Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymmetric - 100% 2. Vredestein ULTRAC SESSANTA - 99.05% 3. Continental Contisport Contact 3 - 98.38% Lateral G: 1. Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymmetric - 100% 2. Vredestein ULTRAC SESSANTA - 97.85% 3. Continental Contisport Contact 3 - 97.34% Subjective: 1. Vredestein ULTRAC SESSANTA - 100% 2. Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymmetric - 96.15% 3. Continental Contisport Contact 3 - 94.23% Aqua-Planing: Straight Line: 1. Dunlop Sport Maxx - 100% 2. Bridgestone Potenza RE050-A - 98.85% 3. Continental Contisport Contact 3 - 97.01% Cornering: 1. Vredestein ULTRAC SESSANTA - 100% 2. Bridgestone Potenza RE050-A - 83.37% 3. Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymmetric - 80.09% Braking: Wet Braking 1. Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymmetric - 100% 2. Bridgestone Potenza RE050-A - 98.19% 3. Continental Contisport Contact 3 - 97.44% Dry Braking - Very little to choose between top and bottom [7% difference] 1. Michelin Pilot Sport 2 PS2 - 100% 2. Vredestein ULTRAC SESSANTA - 99.08% 3. Bridgestone Potenza RE050-A - 98.94% Best at the Pumps: Resistance (rolling): 1. Yokohama S.DRIVE - 100% 2. Michelin Pilot Sport 2 PS2 - 97.88% 3. Kumho Ecsta STP KU31 - 92.72% Dry Handling: Lap Times: 1. Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymmetric - 100% 2. Michelin Pilot Sport 2 PS2 - 99.79% 3. Bridgestone Potenza RE050-A - 99.18% Lateral G: 1. Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymmetric - 100% 2. Michelin Pilot Sport 2 PS2 - 97.19% 3. Bridgestone Potenza RE050-A - 96.18% Subjective: 1. Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymmetric - 100% 2. Michelin Pilot Sport 2 PS2 - 95.55% 3. Pirelli PZERO Nero - 93.33% Road Route: Subjective: 1. Vredestein ULTRAC SESSANTA - 100% 2. Dunlop Sport Maxx - 92.50% 3. Michelin Pilot Sport 2 PS2 - 90.50% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 [ QUOTE ] ....So, Vredestein's own illustration which I posted earlier, and which matches the black GTI tyre setup, is wrong? I agree that it looks wrong (or unfamiliar), but I'm more inclined to believe Vredenstein's web site. [/ QUOTE ] That's what I'm suggesting. If you imagine that you drive across a stream that's over the road. Unless the tyres are symmetrical across the verticle axis then surely the car will pull one way or the other. You would hope that's the opposite of what manufacturers are tyring to do. Also as mentioned above, having the arrow head opposite ways round then only wil clear water and one will accumalate. I simply can't see this being correct ... but as I'm not an engineer then I'm more than willing to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted February 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 ....I've started to investigate this question of correct tread pattern fitting and have just found this on the Vredestein web site. I'll continue investigating. I've now spoken with Vredestein in the UK and they get this same query a heck of a lot! - Another such query before mine this morning. They are sending me an email which hopefully will explain more and I'll post accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theduisbergkid Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 [ QUOTE ] ....I've started to investigate this question of correct tread pattern fitting and have just found this on the Vredestein web site. I'll continue investigating. I've now spoken with Vredestein in the UK and they get this same query a heck of a lot! - Another such query before mine this morning. They are sending me an email which hopefully will explain more and I'll post accordingly. [/ QUOTE ] I may know nothing about nothing, but I dont understand how they would work, it just looks so wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 Even from a very basic view having tyres on the same axle that behave the same - I.e. produce the same directional forces - can't be a good thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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