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A5quattro

So, watching Fifth Gear last night.......

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What constitutes a Grand Tourer?

BMW claiming the 635d is the first diesel in this class but the A5 seems a very close comparison and doesn't start at £53k list for starters.

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I thought a GT was a 2 seater with some pretend seats in the back or no back seats at all?

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I thought it was poor of 5th Gear not to mention the A5, but then Audi haven't exactly publicised the Les Mans diesel link to Audi's fastest coupe/GT.

Think the A5 achieves better MPG than the BMW and is faster to 60, not to mention a lot less £. Although I did like the BMW's LED rear lights and softer tone to it's low fuel warning!

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Please don't believe the quoted stats, a 635d will toast an A5 3.0tdi in a drag race - look at the power and torque to weight ratios. From memory the 635d is 14 something to 100 mph and the A5 16 something.

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Are those official BMW figures, and can they be believed also? ;-)

The point was 5th Gear were road testing a fast diesel GT/coupe and the A5 is definately in that category.

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I suspect the BMW 635D figures are calculated when the detatchable palstic cup holder is removed... coffee.gif

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Never got the cup holder for my 645i - that's why it felt fast!

Autocar got the 535d to 100 in 15.0s in 2005 and that was a pre-facelift car which is 14 PS down on the current engine. Plus the six series is a tad lighter than the five model for model. Autocar, again, took 16.6s to get a manual 3.0tdi A5 to 100. On manufacturer's data, the A5 is 0.4s quicker to 62.5mph than the BMW. Do you really believe that a 3.0tdi A5 will do 0-60 mph in 5.7s? I doubt it.

Recently released Audi data on performance really does suck - marketing I guess.

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I did a comparison on WhatCar's site and the official figures put the A5 ahead, but I'm not disputing the real life test numbers (many factors when doing X v's Y etc), just wish 5th Gear et al took the blinkers off for one second to consider other cars when making bold statements regarding diesel coupes.

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[ QUOTE ]

Do you really believe that a 3.0tdi A5 will do 0-60 mph in 5.7s? I doubt it.

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Coming from an S4 and a Boxter S prior to that I believe the A5 3.0TDi does 0-60 in 6 seconds yes (5.9 claimed by Audi)... It feels like it does to me. Is one of the reasons I bough the car as was pleasantly surprised as to how disimilar the performance felt compared to the S4.

Not that it really matters - I don't nail it every time I get in the driving seat. ECLIPSe.gif

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[ QUOTE ]

I thought it was poor of 5th Gear not to mention the A5, but then Audi haven't exactly publicised the Les Mans diesel link to Audi's fastest coupe/GT.

Think the A5 achieves better MPG than the BMW and is faster to 60, not to mention a lot less £. Although I did like the BMW's LED rear lights and softer tone to it's low fuel warning!

[/ QUOTE ]

I can confirm the Audi is both "Slower but some way and fuel usage is on a par", tested both bought the BMW 169144-ok.gif

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[ QUOTE ]

Please don't believe the quoted stats, a 635d will toast an A5 3.0tdi in a drag race - look at the power and torque to weight ratios. From memory the 635d is 14 something to 100 mph and the A5 16 something.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right the 635D Sport will eat the Audi, I can garantee that the_finger.gif

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I'm getting slightly confused here.

Are people seriously suggesting the A5 is in the same market as the 6 series?

If so, please get real. It is a (good) competitor for the 3 series coupe. No more, no less. Audi don't currently have a competitor for the 6 series.

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[ QUOTE ]

You are right the 635D Sport will eat the Audi, I can guarantee that the_finger.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Such a shame then that it's so bloody ugly, inside AND out. grin.gif

Given the price differential you'd expect some performance advantage at least. Remember that the A5 is not intended to be a 6 series competitor. 169144-ok.gif

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Touché J C.

(And I think we've already established that, despite some paper figures, their is a significant performance advantage for the 635d over the A5 3.0TDi.)

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[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

You are right the 635D Sport will eat the Audi, I can guarantee that the_finger.gif

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Such a shame then that it's so bloody ugly, inside AND out. grin.gif

Given the price differential you'd expect some performance advantage at least. Remember that the A5 is not intended to be a 6 series competitor. 169144-ok.gif

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I only paid a couple of grand over the price of the A5 fully loaded. wink.gif so there ya go. 169144-ok.gif

Ugly well thats in one's eye surely. SMOKE6.GIF

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So was it second hand? A5quattro mentioned £53k - that's a <u>lot</u> more than even a fully-specced new A5 3.0TDi.

I'm not doubting the 635d's performance credentials, but has anyone actually compared the two in anything other than on paper or in a 'drag race'? It'd be interesting to see how they fare against each other under real world conditions and/or in adverse weather.

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My original point was not to pit the 6 series against the A5, it was 5th Gear not mentioning the A5 when speaking about the “first diesel coupe/GT with performance”.

All this willy waving over the 635 being able to “eat the Audi” is really quite funny. I’ve got a fully loaded A5 and I can tell you it was a good £10k less than a basic 635. Yes, the cars are in a different price range, but not their performance as they appear on paper to be similar. For the extra £10k of the 635, I'd expect it to be in another peformance bracket.

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But surely the point being made is that the 635d is in another performance bracket. (And rightly so, given the price).

A more appropriate comparison might be an A5 3.0TDi versus a BMW 335d Coupe. Much closer in price and yet as quick as the 635d (and thus significantly quicker than the A5).

In terms of the most sensible, direct comparison it would be a BMW 330d Coupe versus the A5. Much more equal in terms of performance and price.

But then, having said all that, there's much more to think about in a decision between BMW and Audi than outright performance. Although the 335d undoubtedly has by far the best engine in its class, in my opinion the A5 is a "nicer" car. The A5 3.0TDi is certainly not a bad car by any stretch - and on the road its performance is more than adequate.

So back to the original point ... I'd say 5th Gear are only really guilty of poorly defining what they meant. The 635d is the first performance diesel GT. By GT, I mean a class of high end vehicles that includes stuff like the 6 series and Jaguar XK - a sector that Audi currently has no presence in. By saying "coupe", they implicitly include a whole different sector inhabited by cars like the A5 and BMW 3 series coupe - in that sector the A5 3.0TDi certainly counts as a performance diesel coupe (although the 335d is undeniably the 'daddy' if performance is the deciding factor).

Right, I think I'll stop waffling before I stop making sense altogether. grin.giftongue.gif

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[ QUOTE ]

So was it second hand? A5quattro mentioned £53k - that's a <u>lot</u> more than even a fully-specced new A5 3.0TDi.

I'm not doubting the 635d's performance credentials, but has anyone actually compared the two in anything other than on paper or in a 'drag race'? It'd be interesting to see how they fare against each other under real world conditions and/or in adverse weather.

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It was 2 months old with 2K miles on ythe clock, just chopped them down on price, they wanted 50.5K I payed 47K laugh.gif

That was a good deal as the car retailed at 60.5K 169144-ok.gif

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[ QUOTE ]

So was it second hand? A5quattro mentioned £53k - that's a <u>lot</u> more than even a fully-specced new A5 3.0TDi.

I'm not doubting the 635d's performance credentials, but has anyone actually compared the two in anything other than on paper or in a 'drag race'? It'd be interesting to see how they fare against each other under real world conditions and/or in adverse weather.

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I actually wanted the audi A5 3.0TDI, and the paper performance turned out to be just that, "Paper", I drove them back to Back and the 635D Sport was in a different league, and the gearbox was a real treat to use.

So the hunt was on for one at sensible money, and I found the deal IMO that I thought was very good as the car has only been on the market for 3 months (October 2007) 169144-ok.gif

PS) I have bought many new audi's, but I will not be buying any more "New" cars as they looose way too much money. 169144-ok.gif

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[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Please don't believe the quoted stats, a 635d will toast an A5 3.0tdi in a drag race - look at the power and torque to weight ratios. From memory the 635d is 14 something to 100 mph and the A5 16 something.

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You are right the 635D Sport will eat the Audi, I can garantee that the_finger.gif

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Sorry but <50bhp difference with the bottom car at 240+bhp means

that "the 635d will gradually pull away from the a5 3.0tdi at high speed" - which is what will happen in the real world on a long straight. Not eat. 169144-ok.gif

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[ QUOTE ]

Touché J C.

(And I think we've already established that, despite some paper figures, their is a significant performance advantage for the 635d over the A5 3.0TDi.)

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Again, this is not the case in the real world.

After remapping both, the difference is a lot bigger. However 40bhp is not a significant advantage and a good driver will more than compensate for that unless its a rolling start 30+ comparison, with less gear changes and less traction issues for the RWD etc 169144-ok.gif

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p.s. am not slating the 635d - its a very fast performance diesel...but its not "another league of performance" to the 3.0tdi - another league of performance is a GT2 or similar.

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With performance diesels I would argue that torque is more important than bhp.

635d - 580Nm (power 286bhp)

A5 - 500Nm (power 239bhp)

Not a massive amount in it, but given that the 635d is (perhaps surprisingly) only 115kg heavier, I think there's probably enough there for the 635d to enjoy that little extra urge in those important overtaking maneouvres (and as the speed gets higher, the gap will increase). Not a massive gap I agree, but enough to be able to really feel the difference on the road.

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I don't understand. (no comments please!!)

Surely the A5 30TDi would be comparable to a 330cd, not the 335cd??? The 335cd (d or whatever) is the performance diesel. The A5 3.0TDi is more a fast cruiser?

The fact that BMW won't release a small engined 6 shows the 6 is in the next class up (ie, 5 Series coupe - Audi A7??) While Audi have the 1.8T/2.0T going in the A5.

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