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RedRobin

New engine for Mk5 GTI....

59 posts in this topic

DSC00909.jpg

....In America and I guess in Europe too - A new "TSI" engine in the latest build Mk5 GTI's.

More info :-

"BPY engine vs CCTA engine is a very clear thing: The CCTA engine is a complete new design and improves in many areas where the old engine was a compromise. (Note: I'm german and called up a friend in germany who happened to be an Audi Master mechanic. He forwarded me a pdf document ; this one is actually a public document).

balance shafts: BPY has a add-on solution (expensive) vs build-in in CCTA. The goal is to improve the accoustic behavior as well as the mid- to high-end vibration. This will help wear and tear long term for any attached part as well as internal engine block parts.

engine block: aside from the fact that the engine block is shared with the new 1.8L engine of the same family ( hence "world engine") it has been build for higher average internal pressures up to 25 Bar. That in turn allows for higher specific power output of greater 100kW/L and 175Nm/L. The current BPY engine is by far not build for that.

engine block vs crankshaft: to prevent longterm warping Audi/VW used a metal composition with almost identical expansion coefficients 13.17 and 13.26 um/mK. This has been an issue with the bearings at high power output and high temperature.

thermal profiles: the engine was optimized for higher temp effeciency which means less losses and better gas milage.

Head and block: the head is aluminum and has a different characteristic. To minimize stress between both parts they used highly komplex FEM Modells to optimize the mounting points and a better more evenly distribution of the stress points. That's a major improvement for the gaskets and for the head mounts (bolts). The old engine wasn't optimized that well.

waterpump and thermostat housing was removed from the block because of the lack of structurell support. But all oil and oil return paths , blow-by paths and chain housing was integrated. The engine is lighter, shorter, better to maintain due to an overall lower component count for the engine. Keep in mind, this engine is also cheaper to manufacture (one of the main goals) as well as being manufacturable all over the world (in the US as well). This engine was actually a co-developent of Audi and a steel plant (sounds funny I know, but they have the knowledge of HOW to make it). This was not driven by VW.

Needless to say that, in the current configuration this engine is good for 270HP in the standart build. In the paper they also talked about the manufacturing process of precision pouring and casting and there they are about a factor of 2x better than on the old engine. Their process window is much much tighter now and more reliable. That bgood for process variation.

So knowing what is in the paper, and neglecting the modding aspect of the older BPY engine for the moment, the CCTA engine is a generation better, more reliable and more efficient. The smaller new 1.8L brother is already one of the best choices in germany. Compared to the older 1.8T engine it has 50% more torque (less 10 HP) but is almost as drivable as the 2.0L BPY engine. And that is a statement in one of my german car magazines. So my choice is clear here. Anyone who has the new engine now is lucky to have it, because it's the future.

(Audi will have some mods that VW engines won't get like variable valve lifting)"

Differences between BPY and new CCTA/CBFA engine codes - VWFixx.com Forums

All sounds great! Anyone know any more info?

+++

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So, has the GTI's original engine been replaced for all new GTIs?

I'm confused by this TSI moniker. I thought TSI was the name for the twincharger engines (supercharger and turbocharger), such at the 1.4 units in the Golf GT. I couldn't see any mention of a supercharger in your link, Robin.

I've seen the 2.0T units referred to as TFSI (see the VW and Audi websites), but never just TSI, so I don't understand why they would print TSI on the GTI engine, as in that pic.

Something doesn't add up here.

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I'm sure the "S" stands for "Stratified" and not "Straight".

And is this new engine a 1.8L? What's the output?

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Read this on a another site

VW is now shipping the MKV GTI with the new 2.0T CCTA engine with 211 hp and more torque. This is a completely new engine and replaces the existing 200 hp BPY engine. Advantage is more torque, timing chain instead of timing belt. and better acceleration.

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Read this on a another site
VW is now shipping the MKV GTI with the new 2.0T CCTA engine with 211 hp and more torque. This is a completely new engine and replaces the existing 200 hp BPY engine. Advantage is more torque, timing chain instead of timing belt. and better acceleration.

As I thought, that is not a TSI engine, it is a TFSI engine. There is a difference.

I noticed earlier today that the new A4 is to be fitted with a 211hp version of the 2.0T TFSI, so the GTI might just be getting the same engine.

**Edit**

I could be barking up the wrong tree, but this could be extremely good news for new GTI buyers if the GTI is getting the same 211hp engine as the A4.

http://www.audi.de/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/product/a4.Par.0014.File.pdf

If you look at page 4 you'll see that the CO2 and fuel consumption figures are astounding. On an A4 CO2 is 154g/km while the combined fuel consumption is 6.6 litres/100km, which I think is easily over the 40mpg mark. The GTI is a lighter car, so should get even better figures (IF it is going to get the same engine.)

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that picture if u look closely is from the GLI and NOT the GTI, two different models in the states.

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that picture if u look closely is from the GLI and NOT the GTI, two different models in the states.

....But from what I've read, I'm led to believe that this engine is definitely in the latest Mk5 GTI's across the pond. Have I made a big mistake?

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....But from what I've read, I'm led to believe that this engine is definitely in the latest Mk5 GTI's across the pond. Have I made a big mistake?

I don't think you've made a mistake, as there does seem to be people reporting this new revision as being fitted to new GTIs, but I'm still unsure why that engine says TSI on it (unless the GLI has a TSI engine instead of the 2.0TFSI unit we have).

What I really want to know is whether the GTIs in this country will get the same engine as the A4 (even if reduced back to 200hp), as the efficiency benefits are well worth having.

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im thinking you may have robin, its highly unlikely they'll use the 1.4 in a GTI ,I cant see them changing to the TSi route when the scirroco best effort is the same engine as the current GTi. If there was a change on the horizon, the scirroco would of had it listed .Normally manufactures start to feed new technology into their new models, and bits of one model , then get fitted to another model and so on and so forth, ie like some of the trim/dash panels are the same in preview pics of the Mk6. I wouldnt be at all surprised that the 2.0 tfsi 230ps will be standard on the GTi on the Mk6 .

If pretty sure the GLi is the GT model in europe.

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in the US both the gli and gti models share the same engine.

the engine in question above is not 1.4l but a 2.0l turbo one.

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tsi engine will not be fitted to europeon GTi, like it has been stated, the story doesnt add up, nor does the statement with which model car this is actually effecting.

they keep mentioning about the 1.8spec engine in the mk 4, i think this statement is from way way back and i think its getting confused with the latest production engine in the mk 5

ill be shocked if they ditch the so called "efficient" TFSI setup ,in favour for a more expensive twin charger setup. Modding would also be effected, as tuning ability will be reduced. Wont please Hurdy very much!.;)

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the engine offered in the US gti is not twin charger, just a 2l turbo.

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Aren't all TFSI engines now going to be called just TSI? (2.0 T included) Read that somewhere in a VW update.

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Aren't all TFSI engines now going to be called just TSI? (2.0 T included) Read that somewhere in a VW update.

....That's what I thought too. But my dealer didn't know anything about this 'new engine' when we spoke this afternoon.

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Would Audi not get an new engine first in their cars? Hope it's true, if it is i think i will have have solved my what car next question

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Aren't all TFSI engines now going to be called just TSI? (2.0 T included) Read that somewhere in a VW update.

I think I read the same thing a few months back. I may be wrong but the 1.4T engine (replaced the 1.6) in the Audi A3 is not a twincharger like in the Golf but is still refered to as the TSI.

I'd be surprised to see the new engine in the existing GTI. Surely VW would wait until the MKVI??

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I think I read the same thing a few months back. I may be wrong but the 1.4T engine (replaced the 1.6) in the Audi A3 is not a twincharger like in the Golf but is still refered to as the TSI.

I'd be surprised to see the new engine in the existing GTI. Surely VW would wait until the MKVI??

Nope, the Audi A3 1.4T is referred to as a TFSI.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a new engine in the Golf GTI, because in the current climate of high fuel prices and emissions based car tax, manufacturers will be wanting to maintain sales by offering newer and more efficient engines.

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....I'm experiencing the same feelings one gets whenever a favourite bit of technology is upgraded. It's usually the latest desktop Mac but this time it's my car! I'd love to get more mpg like anyone else would, but I've learnt that it's always best to enjoy what you have got rather than focus on what you haven't.

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....I'm experiencing the same feelings one gets whenever a favourite bit of technology is upgraded. It's usually the latest desktop Mac but this time it's my car! I'd love to get more mpg like anyone else would, but I've learnt that it's always best to enjoy what you have got rather than focus on what you haven't.

Good point there Red

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Aren't all TFSI engines now going to be called just TSI? (2.0 T included) Read that somewhere in a VW update.

yes.

It gets confusing.

I did know about this NEW 2.0 engine just did not know it was out yet. Audis NEW 1.8T is a new design and it was co-developed as this 2.0 too.

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....Everybody everywhere (both sides of the Atlantic) is confused by this 'TSI' badging :(

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Looked at my engine cover yesterday - says TSI on it. I guess they all do?? (2006 model).

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Robin,

Don't be confused.

I have talked about this before on here when VW/audi first lauched a press statment about its renaming of the engines.

This NEW 2.0 engine is NOT a twin charger engine.

Its an engine that is based off the NEW 1.8T used in the new audi A4. (NOT the old 1.8T unit as used in mk4 golfs and every VW group product in the last 10 years known to man lol)

I will admit i did not expect to see it in a VW product Yet. But for it to be gently brought in the audi range first as new models or facelifts came out.

OT so don't get confused

To confuse matters more VW currently have the TWIN Charger (super charged + turbo charged) 1.4

Audi+SEAT will have a TWIN turbo charged 1.4 soon producing similar power (i was told 180bhp) but it may arrive as a 170 just to confuse matters.

Also Audis ~120bhp 1.4 is only a single turbo charged unit (no supercharger). The same unit is now used in the golf to replace the 1.6N/A engine. But it too is badged as a TSI.

lol.

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There will soon be no normaly aspirated engines in the VW / Audi range at this rate. Fine by me...

You know what will happen - the CO2 rates will come down with these more efficient engines - the government will look to recover revenue and introduce a 'Turbo Tax' :grin:

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^ Its why alot of my friends are now only looking to buy cars from 2001 and older.

As thinks can only get worse.

It was always said if the goverment could think of a way of taxing air they would be over the moon and guess they have done it now. lol

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