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FWD cars: Why do people...


330dcoupe
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buy expensive rear tyres for front wheel drive cars? I've never seen the point, as all they do is roll. The cupra is the 1st FWD car I've had for almost 4 years, and soon I'll be replacing it's tyres; I will buy good tyres for the front, but will try and get cheaper ones for the back.

Buying 4 good tyres for a RWD car was required IMO, as all 4 wheels had a job to do: The front to steer and the back to put power down.

I just put it down to rip-off joints like kwik fi(ddle)t - luring people in with their bull sh*t.

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I don't agree with your comments. if you've got cr@p rear tyres on a car like a Cupra you can get bad lift off oversteer and before you know it you will be facing the roundabout you just left.

It's much more dangerous having cr@p back tyres than cr@p front as if you lose the front you can control it very easy whereas if you lose the back it can catch you out.

Some tyre fitters like Costco will only fit new tyres to the rear axle of any car when replacing two, for this very reason

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I would always have the same make at all 4 corners..

they are designed to work in pairs at the very least, and really it's silly to have a different profile front and rear, the fronts might stick and the rears let go at different forces.

You'll also affect the ride and road noise.

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When I say cheap, i don't mean £20 budget tyres - i'm talking £80-100 as apposed to £150-80. My car is never used on a track and I don't treat the road like one either - so will I really notice the difference?

if I fit the same pair at the front and then the same pair at the back - all same sizes, of course - will the road noise differ that much?

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I think you'll be OK as long as they are reputable tyres.

I always replace in pairs which means there are times when I've had different tyres front and back and it's been OK

If I was replacing 4 I would always buy 4 the same and when it comes to pairs it's the best vale I can get at the time.

At the moment I can't see by Goodyear F1 Asymmetrics both for price and performance.

Probably because I'm a biker but I believe tyres is one of the most important things you can buy and you shoudl always buy the best you n afford at the time because you never know when they will save you're life.

You say it's a Cupra, I had a Cupra R for a number of years which used the same size of tyres (225/40 X 18) as my R32 and I have never spent more than £110 for a good tyre

I would never go anywhere near Kwik-Fit

Edited by Cuprabob
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I did something similar with my last car, when I had to replace the rear tyres I stuck on a slightly cheaper option and the whole car felt unbalanced, didn't corner so well and i felt more nervous pushing it.

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Put the same on all round, all the tyres help the car grip to the road, would you like to suddenly try to avoid something to find the rears just not up to the job. :(

Total false economy IMO, get the same all round or you might live to regret it if you enjoy pressing on. +++

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Bordering on the absurd to put different brands on the car when changing all 4.

I would rather have 4 £50 tyres on my car than 2 PS2's up front at £400 and 2 PS1's on the back at another £400.

Mixing tyres is a **** idea, buy 4 Falken FK452's, they can be had for £260 fitted for all 4 on some 18" sizes like 225/40/18 and they are awesome tyres too.

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No point whatsoever in buying a performance hatch like a Cupra if you're then going to screw up the car's handling by putting different tyres on the rear. You might as well have bought something completely non-sporty to begin with, like a fwd A3...

Stick to the same tyres all round. You will find a saving over tyres for a rwd car by virtue of the fact the rears will last twice as long as the fronts.

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....I think it's highly relevant to repeat my words posted elsewhere today : -

Following a random 'snatching' problem when driving enthusiastically after transferring my 4mm F1's on the front (FWD) and new Goodyear Assymetrics on the rear axle, I had a long and very helpful phone conversation with Goodyear's UK tyretech support today.

Firstly, the tyre industry as a whole recommends that on FWD cars where it's safe to mix tyre treads (but always matched on axles and never at all on AWD vehicles) that you run your deeper treads on the rear rather than the front. This of course assumes that your front treads are not threadbare! The basic reason is (as I understand it) that as you approach the limits of your front wheels you don't want your rear wheels to be heading off as too much oversteer - The rear needs stability. Anyroadup, it's the tyre industry recommendation.

On the subject of this thread and a 'snatching' or 'tugging' problem : - The Goodyear F1 Assymetrics have a special insert on the inside designed to reduce leaning and to keep more tread on the road. The internal structure of the F1 Assyms is also designed to reduce G-forces. The GSD3 F1's don't have this same structure and therefore when 'normal' F1's and Assyms are on the same car (but of course axle matched), there will be a differential in shoulder flexing when driving more enthusiastically.

What's happening with the 'snatch' (Hello, boys!!) is that the GTI's ESP reads an apparent difference in tyre behaviour which it assumes momentarily to be the beginning of a skid and it compensates accordingly by kicking in with a 'tug' on the system.

Swopping wheels so that the new Assyms are on the front and worn GSD3's on the rear will reduce instances of snatching but not when you are driving much closer to the limits - In which case you could potentially be more easily saying hello to your rear end overtaking you. Fun to watch that happening on the track perhaps, but not in your own car on a public road with many obstacles!

It's safer not to run too high a difference of tread between axles and it's ideal to run all the same treads on all wheels, but in the real world good tyres cost money and why throw away perfectly legal tyres?

So at least I am reassured in knowing what's happening.

As soon as my 4mm tread F1's are down to <2mm I'll fit the other Assymetrics already put aside for me.

Edited by RedRobin
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This thread is a joke surely????

They are the only thing keeping you in contact with the road, so you should always put on the very best you can afford, and not mix cheaper with more expensive tyres.

No, it's not a joke. Incidentally, I bought the car with two different types of tyres on each axle - and I've had no problems with it what so ever - the handling is great*. But like i said, would having two different makes of tyres on each axle REALLY have that much of a noticeable difference on a car that I use as a every day run-around, which isn't driven like it's on brands hatch (have you seen the price of diesel?)

*I know the handling is good, because of enthusiastic driving when i 1st bought it.

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It never ceases to amazing me that some people are prepared to spend tens of thousands of pounds on a car and then try and skimp £50 here and there on the only part of your car that's actually keeps you attached to the road and not in a ditch/lamp post/central reservation etc..... :smashfreak:

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On the Bora TDi, I have newer tyres on the front. The rears will need replacing soon, and I'll put them on the front and the current fronts on the rear.

I'll also make sure the fronts are a recognised make. So probably Conti Sports. The current fronts are Margon**** (same make as London Taxi) as I do 30K miles a year and was recommended them as they are supposed to last. I go up and down the A1 each day, so nothing spirited except for a few roundabouts!

Each axle has 2 of the same tyre

On the A6 Quattro, I just replace each axle at a time whenever they get low. I've done that with each of my Quattros and always with Conti Sports. No problems with them whatsoever. And when I am in the Quattro, I usually drive it 'enthusiatically' in the cornering dept!

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It never ceases to amazing me that some people are prepared to spend tens of thousands of pounds on a car and then try and skimp £50 here and there on the only part of your car that's actually keeps you attached to the road and not in a ditch/lamp post/central reservation etc..... :smashfreak:

....Each tyre has a contact area only the size of a CD case typically. It's surely a no-brainer.

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sorry chaps but i really have to disagree with lots of you. having different brands on different axles is stupid, quite true - but 99% of people on this forum who buy "performance" tyres are falling for marketing crap.

if you think falkens, kumho and other cheapo brands are crap tyres you are kidding yourselves. they are usually just a harder compound. if you really need a softer compound you're probably going to die/hurt someone whatever brand of tyre you have.

and why oh why do people with teeny engines in bog standard cars insist on having performance tyres? totally stupid. an A4 will always handle like an A4. ditto a 3-series beemer or a golf gti. they weigh 1.6tons+ and are designed for safety not performance. so you're never going to compete with a fezza etc round corners. spend 300 a corner on tyres and you'll still get nowhere near the cornering ability.

tread is also pretty irrelevant unless its raining.

inflate your tyres properly and if you want to increase cornering speed significantly you need a lighter, more able car - not lowered suspension, different tyres bla bla. difference is a few %.

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sorry chaps but i really have to disagree with lots of you. having different brands on different axles is stupid, quite true - but 99% of people on this forum who buy "performance" tyres are falling for marketing crap.

if you think falkens, kumho and other cheapo brands are crap tyres you are kidding yourselves. they are usually just a harder compound. if you really need a softer compound you're probably going to die/hurt someone whatever brand of tyre you have.

and why oh why do people with teeny engines in bog standard cars insist on having performance tyres? totally stupid. an A4 will always handle like an A4. ditto a 3-series beemer or a golf gti. they weigh 1.6tons+ and are designed for safety not performance. so you're never going to compete with a fezza etc round corners. spend 300 a corner on tyres and you'll still get nowhere near the cornering ability.

tread is also pretty irrelevant unless its raining.

inflate your tyres properly and if you want to increase cornering speed significantly you need a lighter, more able car - not lowered suspension, different tyres bla bla. difference is a few %.

Totally agree, that is why I said you are better to put on 4 Falkens for £250 than putting expensive tyres on the front and something else on the back.

FK452's are superb tyres and they can be had for under £60 now online in some 18" sizes.

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sorry chaps but i really have to disagree with lots of you. having different brands on different axles is stupid, quite true - but 99% of people on this forum who buy "performance" tyres are falling for marketing crap.

if you think falkens, kumho and other cheapo brands are crap tyres you are kidding yourselves. they are usually just a harder compound. if you really need a softer compound you're probably going to die/hurt someone whatever brand of tyre you have.

and why oh why do people with teeny engines in bog standard cars insist on having performance tyres? totally stupid. an A4 will always handle like an A4. ditto a 3-series beemer or a golf gti. they weigh 1.6tons+ and are designed for safety not performance. so you're never going to compete with a fezza etc round corners. spend 300 a corner on tyres and you'll still get nowhere near the cornering ability.

tread is also pretty irrelevant unless its raining.

inflate your tyres properly and if you want to increase cornering speed significantly you need a lighter, more able car - not lowered suspension, different tyres bla bla. difference is a few %.

Yep which is why I just said get the same all over, just make sure they are rated for the speed you might travel at. In the UK this shouldn't be a problem though. :grin:

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Totally agree, that is why I said you are better to put on 4 Falkens for £250 than putting expensive tyres on the front and something else on the back.

FK452's are superb tyres and they can be had for under £60 now online in some 18" sizes.

....Whether cheap or expensive, it's surely safer to run the same tyres all around. But don't under-estimate tyre technology and choose primarily according to price. Well, actually it's entirely up to you - I really can't be bothered to debate the subject :cool:

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tyre technology? they are rubber circles with grooves in. the technology comes from the marketing department.... do tyres last longer nowadays? do they puncture less? all the technology is geared towards making you change your tyres every 10k miles whether you need to or not!

show me some physics where a £200 tyre means you corner at XX miles/hour quicker in identical conditions in identical cars than a £50 tyre.

they'd need to be coated in magnatronium or something.....

easiest way is to use a narrower tyre - but its safer overall to have larger contact patch. typical cars are a big compromise ...

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They aren't all the same though are they, many a test shows that some are much better than others at reducing aquaplaning or increasing cornering forces. Yes they are a compromise but in the test that I've read that have cheaper tyres in they have never come close to the top.

Its fractions difference sometimes others its the difference in stopping 10 or 20 metres sooner in wet conditions. I will have to see what I go for when I replace mine, its the first set of tyres I've need to buy in 10 years. :roflmao::eek::o

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tyre technology? they are rubber circles with grooves in. the technology comes from the marketing department.... do tyres last longer nowadays? do they puncture less? all the technology is geared towards making you change your tyres every 10k miles whether you need to or not!

show me some physics where a £200 tyre means you corner at XX miles/hour quicker in identical conditions in identical cars than a £50 tyre.

they'd need to be coated in magnatronium or something.....

....Really. I'm surprised and speechless and laughing! :shakes head in disbelief:

I'll grant you that the purely visual pattern of tyre treads helps sell a tyre but that's down to the ignorance of the consumer. It seems that a lot of consumers are ignorant about tyres.

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Believe it or not Red what they're referring to in terms of cornering ability is actually physics - and in terms of tyres it has masses more to do with marketing than it does with actual technical design of tyres.

Take an extreme - F1 cars. Look at cornering velocities and cornering G forces. They're all within a gnats bollock of each other - and the reason for that is pure and simple physics.

Same with a road car. Take your super fast Golf GTi. Fit super grippy SupaMagnatronSnotSlip F1 GTMaxTurboBastard Supergrooves that are a foot wide and I guarentee it'll make f*ckall difference to the cornering ability of your car - which is set by a combination of mass, inertia and bizarrely camber asisstance from the road. Your tyres will have little to do with it.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting you just fit slicks and go out in the rain. Even the idea of slicks & rain must highlight what the majority of tyre tread design is about - water dispersal.

It's the same with braking. ABS etc. can have some affect on your braking distances but in the end good old physics & inertia have most of the effect.

I don't care what tyres you put on your car, how wide they are, how wizardy-treaded they are. They ain't going to overcome physics.

Saying that though I'd be inclined to match all 4 tyres on my car - just because :grin::eclipse::P

One thing that's worth adding is that most people mix up handling and cornering ability. Cornering ability is very much how much lateral G a car can hold while cornering - handling is more the perception of the driver. I.e. how does the car 'feel' when going round corners.

It's pretty obvious that differnt tyres can affect handling using the above definition - it's massively arguable that tyres make f*ck all difference to cornering ability unless you start talking environmentals such as rain etc. (at which point slicks become ridiculous).

Don't be bought by marketing*.

PS. Please don't telly Molly I said that.

Edited by Mac
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