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VWRacing-KW-V3 Suspension REVIEW....


RedRobin
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We all love that lowered look on our modded GTI's. It makes our ride, and consequently us, look uber-cooool. Race cars are always slammed down on the deck as far as they can be, but always in consideration of the whole suspension's functionality - It isn't just for 'the look'. Sooner or later on that slippery slope of modding, you will make a pit-stop for suspension - It's a fundamental and important part of achieving a whole package which delivers a tactile and well balanced car which is a pure joy when driving enthusiastically. Responsibly driven, it also makes a safer car.

WHY:

Upgrading my stock suspension to KoniFSD dampers plus Eibach Pro-Kit springs and anti-roll bars was done at a very early stage. Koni's FSD system provided an excellent compromise between Harder-for-Performance versus Softer-for-Comfort and did so very cleverly by smartly (instantly) responding hydraulically (not electronically) to the road surface. I had one of the first KoniFSD sets for the Mk5 GTI, but 50,000 miles later they started to deteriorate and Koni had already revised their versions.

Koni FSD Damper Set

So, they needed replacement. Awesome in Manchester, where I originally bought them, have been extremely helpful as always but explained that, though under lifetime warranty, they would have to go back to Koni in Holland for confirmation of their failure so they could be replaced. With the other mods my car now has I really couldn't face both the effort and extra cost of changing back to my standard VW suspension (Sachs dampers) and I had no guarantee that Koni would agree that their FSD's had failed. So I had the perfect excuse to upgrade to another suspension system.

SOURCING:

Obviously Bilstein are probably the best there is but are expensive and have more adjustability than I need as I don't do regular track days. KW's are probably the next best and having worked with Mark Farmer at VWRacing/RacingLine for my Quaife diff, it was a no-brainer to go to VWR. They run both the Volkswagen Racing Cup and Formula Ford competitions and probably have more experience of the Mk5 platform than anyone else in the UK. They also have close working relationships with VW in Germany.

If I needed yet more reasons to use VWR, they have a technical partnership with KW in Germany and can supply bespoke.

VWR-KW-V3s.jpg

Although they are growing their 'Fast Road' market, their priority is of course to racing commitments, and so it tends to be a matter of being flexible and fitting in with their busy schedules rather than "I want to have it done next Monday and it needs to be done in x number of hours". But rest assured that, in my experience on more than one occasion, VWR/RacingLine will treat you extremely well and give you their undivided attention regardless of whether you are paying them thousands to convert a brand new Scirocco to a full-on race car or just having a new set of brakes.

VWR_Sciroccos.jpg

INSTALLATION:

VWR_1.jpg

^ On arrival it didn't take long to get working on my car ^

My existing suspension was pretty well 'stuck on'! Simon did most of the installation - He's a real enthusiast and is currently building a Mk2 GTI with a VR6 engine.

WALK_UpsideDown.jpg

^ Simon was constantly smiling while working! ^

It made sense to fit my Whiteline AntiLift Kit in the same workshop session.

As VWR's experience is particularly race focussed, it results in a number of practices which have very positive advantages. One of them is assembling components with lots of appropriate grease so that they can be easily replaced in the future. Another is their eagle-eye for spotting wear and the condition of components. The racing environment puts everything under extreme stresses and it's important to maintain everything in best working condition.

VWR-KW-V3_front.jpg

VWR-KW-V3_rearL.jpg

VWR-KW-V3_rearR.jpg

Mark anchored my KoniFSD's to the bench and discovered that he could compress the hydraulics by hand! He also pointed out evidence of leakage and suggested the seals had failed. Good news because it means that Koni will doubtless confirm the same and replace them with new ones without fuss.

We kept my Eibach Anti-Roll Bars.

Knowing he would get on with Mark, I had invited a good mate of mine - Dan, who started BIALI Motorsport - to join us for the day. So, encouraged (ordered!) by Mark, Dan and I spent quite a lot of time going off in their demo GTI - Very fully loaded and 330 neddies. Dan is used to a modified Mk4 R32 and so we shared driving. I'd drive out and he'd drive back. We went out three times and of course hated every second of it! Dan's .:R has KW-V3's too.

VWR_DemoDanR32.jpg

Dan1_VWR.jpg

RRBlackHorse.jpg

SUSPENSION SETUP

After the installation was done, it was time for Mark to apply his expertise in setting up the suspension. This involved alignment and corner-weighting - So it was string and bags of sugar (very BIALI-style). First the corner weighting which involves a weight scale under each wheel and a digital readout of the weight at each corner.

Centre-Weighting.jpg

VWR_Weightingpre.jpg

^ The corner-weights readout before adjustments were made ^

Mark then asked me to sit in the car to add my weight and also noted that there was three-quarters of a tank of fuel.

He then adjusted my suspension settings to take account of this info.

Next came the piece of string. I had asked Mark if they used a laser alignment rig such as BeissBarth and he said no, he used string, which is the 'old school' method. He pointed out that at a race you couldn't easily carry around a big laser rig.

VWR_AlignmentSetup.jpg

VWR_Alignment.jpg

Then it was time to take the car out on the road to settle the suspension before checking alignment again.

VWR_JobDone.jpg

IMG_4121.jpg

^ However, I didn't expect they would race my car around the workshop! ^

VWR_collection.jpg

VWR_FordRS_cockpit.jpg

VWR_FordRS.jpg

^ But now I know why all those other race cars were there ^

Then it was my turn to take my car out and check it was alright. Fortunately Milton Keynes has lots of roundabouts and so I was able to go round a few - Some I did several times at once! The road was greasy, she remained as flat as a pancake and the Quaife very quickly blew out the TC light. Nice!!!!

ALTERNATIVES CHOICES:

Obviously there are a lot of suspensions to choose from. Bilstein, KW are the top ones in my opinion but Eibach have a good reputation. The KoniFSD's are excellent and a superbly practical compromise. It's very much down to personal choice according to what you want to achieve and how you use your car.

I would strongly advise against the cheaper lesser established brands and also it's important to check the results of independent corrosion tests - Bilstein and KW do the best, though KW race dampers are galvanised and so not a good choice for a long term road car.

MINUS POINTS:

For me there aren't any except that I wouldn't dare use most indoor public carparks because of the steep ramp angle changes. But those were often dodgy in my car as it was.

For me this isn't a minus point, but some people wouldn't like the ride either as a driver or passenger - I can feel every manhole cover and cats-eye but I like the feedback and the ride isn't harsh - It's just 'nobbly'. My daughter doesn't know I've changed the suspension and has made no comment on the ride even on the rough road we live on, and she's very focussed on cars at the moment as she's learning to drive and will be taking her test soon.

Some may think that £1,550 (all inclusive) is expensive - I wouldn't! I'd say it's very good value for money and I feel both safer and happier to have had Mark's experience in setting it up. The V3's have a reputation for being tricky to get right.

My garage access is now a problem : -

GarageRamp_Problem.jpg

But I solved that problem : -

GarageRamp_Solution.jpg

PLUS POINTS:

No bodyroll, extremely flatly planted, excellent feedback. The feel of the ride coupled with the sound of the Milltek add up to an even more taut and tactile driving experience. Although much less powerful than the VWR/RL 'Fast Road' demo GTI, my car now feels not that hugely different in the way that it handles, but although I'm more confident than I was in the VWR/RL car, I haven't explored its full potential but we didn't hang about! Both cars feel very controllable. But, of course, the demo GTI has extra camber and that will make a difference when pushed hard.

If I have any problems I know that VWR/RL will look after me very well. I absolutely love driving, so I love my car and I want to have the confidence of knowing it's well looked after my other enthusiasts who have the specialist skills and this also keeps me and my daughter potentially safer.

Yes, the lower look does suit the car better but it's the ride which I think is more important.

SUMMARY:

My brief to Mark had been to feel free do what he knows best but keep it practical for the road and not give me any uneven tyre wear problems and expenses. Clearly he has done exactly that and put a huge grin on my face.

I drove home the 170 miles in the dark and mostly on A-roads, so the next morning I spent out on some local B-roads which are slightly rough in places - I wasn't disappointed!

Monza18s_Smoked.jpg

^ BEFORE ^

RED_VWR-KW_sideL.jpg

RED_VWR-KW_Abbotsbury.jpg

^ AFTER ^

+++:cool:+++

Edited by RedRobin
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Looking good RR.

I drove a friends MkV .:R which had VWR KW V3's and was instantly sold on them. However, there is absolutely no way I could get the car down my drove if I had them fitted so unless I move or have the drive remoddeled I'm going to have to give them a miss.

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Excellent right up Robin.

If you've done it for the handling etc then £1500 doesn't seem too bad at all.

Astecically I'll be honest and say I think it looked perfect before. I know it's a personal thing but I prefer the arch gap to be even all the way around rather that close at the top.

Sounds like a great setup +++

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Excellent right up Robin.

If you've done it for the handling etc then £1500 doesn't seem too bad at all.

Astecically I'll be honest and say I think it looked perfect before. I know it's a personal thing but I prefer the arch gap to be even all the way around rather that close at the top.

Sounds like a great setup +++

....Cheers +++

I definitely didn't do this mod for the looks. A lot of GTI owners do, and they don't get the setup right and then have all sorts of other problems!

My KoniFSD's had failed and I had to replace them with something. Having worked with VWR/RL re my Quaife diff, it was a no-brainer who to go to for suspension.

My brief to Mark was "Must be practical for road use, no uneven tyre wear, no wheel arch problems" - I then left it entirely to him as he knows what he's doing! The result is as it is, regardless of aesthetics.

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Superb write up Robin.. thanks for that +++

Does changing the set up affect tyre wear at all?

....Cheers, Dave - Do you want your packet of Tampax back now? :grin:;)+++

The only brief I gave to Mark at VWR was that I wanted no uneven tyre wear, no wheel arch problems, and to be road-practical. Added camber, though great for handling and especially trackdays, results in uneven tyre wear and I don't have a tyre sponsor!

+++

Edited by RedRobin
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I'm very happy with my KW V2's on the S2, totally different car I know but still, they get a massive thumbs up from me +++

....I think that probably only Bilsteins are 'better'.

I don't know if you've seen some independent corrosion tests but IIRC, KW's were Numero Uno.

+++ Safe but Fun Journeys, mate +++

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My brief to Mark was "Must be practical for road use, no uneven tyre wear, no wheel arch problems" - I then left it entirely to him as he knows what he's doing! The result is as it is, regardless of aesthetics.

Shame you didn't add "and get in and out of my garage" ;)

Nice slim ramps though. Not seen them before +++

p.s. Couldn't a dodgy 'travelling road maintenance crew' just throw down a bit of tarmac for you ? :D

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Shame you didn't add "and get in and out of my garage" ;)

Nice slim ramps though. Not seen them before +++

....I didn't want to compromise what Mark would do, especially as my previous Koni setup only just cleared my garage anyway.

Excellent ramps, great attention to detail and well considered design, from : - Aluminium Ramps - Vehicle, Plant, Motorbike, ATV and Quad Ramps, Disabled Ramps

Excellent service too, but not cheap!

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[quote name=RedRobin;1382304

Excellent ramps' date=' great attention to detail and well considered design, from : - Aluminium Ramps - Vehicle, Plant, Motorbike, ATV and Quad Ramps, Disabled Ramps

Thanks for that.. one of our retail units has a small step into it (65mm), but it's enough to make wheel chairs a problem.. so I've just ordered a ramp from them +++

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Thanks for that.. one of our retail units has a small step into it (65mm), but it's enough to make wheel chairs a problem.. so I've just ordered a ramp from them +++

....Glad to be able to help, Dave +++

I doubt if you'll be disappointed - Their products are excellent quality of build - Worthy of their own review!! :grin:

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That's low!

When are you getting the neon lights to go under the sills Robin? :P

....It's what's very soon going to go above the sills which might raise an eyebrow, Mook :grin:

So far, it's not toooo low. I didn't ask for 'low-ness' - It's just what VWR/RL set up. To stop uneven tyre wear, there's no significant additional camber.

One of the plus features of the V3's is their adjustability, so Mark can change it if needed. We're going to be visiting Bruntingthorpe in due course.

I'm looking forward to seeing your GTI project one day +++

Edited by RedRobin
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Cheers for the review Robin+++, she's looking good. Is the type of failure you had with the FSD's very common 'cause 50k miles is not that far?

....Not common on Koni's revised FSD's but mine were among the first for the Mk5 GTI (trust me to jump in where angels fear to tread!). They have a 'lifetime' guarantee but Koni have to verify themselves that their product has failed rather than just take my (or VWRacing's) word for it. So they're being shipped back to Holland and I'm expecting to be given a brand new set which I can then sell - Koni don't give money back.

They are a very good system.

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Loving this shot:

RED_VWR-KW_Abbotsbury.jpg

The car looks fantastic, RR. +++ Now, when I go down the proper suspension mod route like you just have (unlike my Eibach springs), these will be a serious contender. Aweosme, really hope you enjoy the new set up. :)

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^^^^

Cheers, guys - It's good to hear it's useful.

More info (cos I can't edit my original) : -

My VWR-KW-V3's are twintube and the valving and setting parameters are as on the race cars. They are adjustable but to settings exclusive to VWR as a result of extensive testing on their race cars. My spring rating is exclusive too (hence the different colour). This particular version of the V3 has been produced exclusively for VWR and is designed for 'Fast Road' use.

Phil - Your nan's tits are what we secretly used as our yardstick :secret::grin:

See you at The Combe in 09 I hope +++

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^^^^

Not a boring question at all - Very relevant for real-world UK road use!

I can feel every cat-eye and manhole cover and ridge but very firmly rather than harshly. She will jolt over a small pothole but the shock is more from the sound than the feel and she recovers instantly.

I can feel everything in the seat of my pants but not through to my back.

If I hammer on at speed and get the suspension moving more, the stock seats are still supportive but I could envisage wanting Recaro's if on track, just to reduce an occupant's body movement.

I would describe the ride as hard and very firm but not harsh. However, someone else may feel it as harsh. To me, harsh is unpleasant. I've only done about 200 miles so far with this suspension.

There is always a trade-off with suspension: Performance-with-Hardness versus Comfort-with-Softness. My KoniFSD's were a good compromise and much better than stock Sachs but the VWR-KW-V3's are in a different league. However, Mark's expertise at adjusting the setup is a major factor in my ride.

She is very well planted and feels very flat, but I also have Whiteline AntiLift kit (castor) and a VWR-Quaife ATB diff. I still have my Eibach anti-roll bars.

Personally there are two things I particularly hate in a car - Over soundproofing and wallowing softness. I like to feel in touch with what's going on but not to the extent of being uncomfortable.

As we all have different comfort levels it's best to try out a car with such suspension first. I tried out VWR/RL's demo GTI first to establish if I would find the ride acceptable.

HTH +++

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Thanks, RR, that does give me some idea. I guess you're going to need to be more careful over ramps, humps and bumps etc. You've overcome the garage entry and exiting ok by the use of those ramps. As you say, it's a trade off and one that will be well worth it as it sounds like it's making your driving experience even better than before and that's money well spent. +++ After the stage 2, I can feel a suspension mod coming on. :grin:

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