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Ferrari's position in F1...


CarMad
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So Ferrari are reviewing there position in F1 and are considering legal action because they might loose there ability to veto and decision they don't like.

Can F1 carry on without them, should the FIA do everything they can to keep them or do they just need to find a compromise with the new rules to allow all teams to spend more....

Discuss. +++

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Ferrari are an integral part of F1 in my opinion. Although I don't like they way they do things when it doesn't go their way they do make it interesting. I'm sure if all the teams decided that the Ferrari engine was standard they wouldn't be complaining.

It's all huffing and puffing and positioning. It'll all work out

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While Ferrari have a history as a long standing manufacturer that also races, they've also got a history for throwing their toys out of the cot when they don't get their own way.

Let them leave - I genuinely don't think it would have a long term impact on the sport. It might actually stop other teams being forced to spend stupid amounts of money just to catch them up.

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While Ferrari have a history as a long standing manufacturer that also races, they've also got a history for throwing their toys out of the cot when they don't get their own way.

Let them leave - I genuinely don't think it would have a long term impact on the sport. It might actually stop other teams being forced to spend stupid amounts of money just to catch them up.

I have to agree.....and after watching Eddy Jordon on Sunday I think he might be thinking the same...A sad loss....but you just can`t justify spending £250 million....especially if your a car manufacurer that`s making thousands redundant....or making a £400 million loss..ie Fiat=Ferrari

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As Mook mentioned, I recall Ferrari withdrew from a race or two back in the 80s over some technical squabble, although I doubt they'll do it now. It's just argy-bargy as they're having a lousy season, I'm sure they'll be back at/near the front of the grid next season on whatever budget they're allowed.

I was looking forward to a Massa v Hamilton scrap this season, looks like it'll be next year now instead....

PS - Ross Brawn is on Twitter ;) - Ross Brawn (RossBrawn) on Twitter

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after watching Eddy Jordon on Sunday I think he might be thinking the same

Don't put me in the same box as that muppet Jordan. Yes, I know he was very good at raising money and running one of the lower end teams, but feck my dog, doesn't he want everyone to know about it still.

Sniff Petrol got it spot on :roflmao:

bbc_f1_so_far_2.jpg

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Ciao Ferrari !! :eek:

Ferrari has quit next year's Formula One Championship because of their opposition to the new technical regulations adopted by the FIA.

In a short statement on the team's website, motor racing's most famous team said they will not be on the grid in 2010.

"We confirm our opposition to the new technical regulations adopted by the FIA and do not intend entering our cars in the 2010 F1 Championship," the statement read.

Ferrari are among several teams to have been angered by the FIA's plans to impose a £40m budget cap on teams from next year, and its move will hugely increase the pressure on FIA president Max Mosley to find a compromise.

Crunch talks were already planned in the next few days with the May 29 deadline for 2010 entries fast approaching.

Prior to the Spanish Grand Prix, Toyota boss John Howett said his team were unlikely to commit by that deadline if the FIA pressed ahead with their plans, but it is Ferrari who have made the move first.

The decision to threaten to pull out of the 2010 championship came at a meeting of the Ferrari board of directors in Maranello today.

Ferrari believe the FIA's new regulations would lead to an unacceptable two-tiered F1 championship, which they consider would be "based on arbitrary technical rules and economic parameters".

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Just read this on the Sky News gadget on my laptop - made me laugh initially then I thought lets nip in here and see what is being said!

Well its funny - agree with all the comments made - what will all the ferrari fan boys do now? Certainly won't be shouting for McLaren will they.

I personally think it's a shame - its a name that shouts F1 and it will be a great loss if they do throw toys out again!

Lets see how it pans out - I do expect some lapse of the regulations though Bernie wont want to lose money over it and I think F1 wil be poorer without them in it..

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If F1 were run to suit Ferrari, F1 would have ceased to exist by now. There needs to be greater technical freedom in the sport but with a budget cap. Otherwise it becomes unsustainable. F1 needs more teams and more competition.

I can see why Ferrari are moaning - their x hundred million dollar F1 business is being slashed by artificial means down to $40m... they're not going to like that.

I don't think they'll leave. Ferrari has always been a racing team with a car company tagged on. Its unthinkable that they should leave. But its an interesting political battle.

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So now we have Renault - BBC SPORT | Motorsport | Formula 1 | Renault join F1 pull-out threat

There will be no one left at this rate - Max has his hands full with this one eh!! best he get his whip out again!!

I would imagine Max has slightly more important things to worry about at the moment, and quite frankly he should tell Renault and Ferrari to feck off.

It'd do Ferrari more harm than Renault, and I can see it hurting Ferrari if they don't participate, they've been selling cars on the back of racing pedigree forever, lose that and what are they left with?

Where else are they going to race? A1GP?:roflmao:

Edited by Tipex
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and quite frankly he should tell Renault and Ferrari to feck off.

That would be Ferrari, Toyota, Red Bull, Torro Rosso and Renault so far then. Does seem like Max and the FIA doing the old "it's my ball so we play my game" routine!!!! Suspect the other big teams will be watching closely as well.

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It'd do Ferrari more harm than Renault, and I can see it hurting Ferrari if they don't participate, they've been selling cars on the back of racing pedigree forever, lose that and what are they left with?
Would it really hit their sales that much? How many people buy a Ferrari for that exact reason?

I know they use the F1 cars for technology testing (as many teams do), so that would hurt.

Does anyone buy a Merc because they are in F1? Ditto for Honda, Renault, BMW.

I know I don't buy a car because it wins or participates in races.

Maybe the teams will go and start their own race series - as mooted a few years ago?

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I thinks Ferrari and F1 are symbiotic. They may not always get along, and their relationship may sometimes be the cause of problems, but both would be much the poorer if they went their separate ways. That said, I think F1 needs Ferrari much more than Ferrari needs F1. Indeed, the loss of Ferrari at this point in time could effectively mean the death of F1 as we know it. It may only need one manufacturer to pull out for the others to decide that continuing is not worth it. If Ferrari, Toyota and Renault pull their funding, it's extremely unlikely that Mercedes and BMW will stay.

There will be those that will say that it might be a positive step for the quality of racing to get rid of the big budgets, the big corporate involvement, and to go back to basics. They may well be right, but what emerges at the far end will be a lot different from what we see now, and F1 might well lose its claimed position at the forefront of motorsport, which is not what Max and Bernie want at all.

I think that the teams are right to fight this rule change, and that a two-tier system is fundamentally flawed. They need to reach a compromise whereby the bar for entry is set lower, but all teams are running to the same rulebook. We need to get at least 26 cars on the grid, and some stability for both funding levels and rules, so that the teams know where they stand.

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I thinks Ferrari and F1 are symbiotic. They may not always get along, and their relationship may sometimes be the cause of problems, but both would be much the poorer if they went their separate ways. That said, I think F1 needs Ferrari much more than Ferrari needs F1. Indeed, the loss of Ferrari at this point in time could effectively mean the death of F1 as we know it. It may only need one manufacturer to pull out for the others to decide that continuing is not worth it. If Ferrari, Toyota and Renault pull their funding, it's extremely unlikely that Mercedes and BMW will stay.

There will be those that will say that it might be a positive step for the quality of racing to get rid of the big budgets, the big corporate involvement, and to go back to basics. They may well be right, but what emerges at the far end will be a lot different from what we see now, and F1 might well lose its claimed position at the forefront of motorsport, which is not what Max and Bernie want at all.

I think that the teams are right to fight this rule change, and that a two-tier system is fundamentally flawed. They need to reach a compromise whereby the bar for entry is set lower, but all teams are running to the same rulebook. We need to get at least 26 cars on the grid, and some stability for both funding levels and rules, so that the teams know where they stand.

Totally agree Teacake - perhaps the FIA should fix an entry point minimum of say £40m but then subsidise new teams entry for say 2 years to the tune of a further £20m per year BUT no way give those teams favourable technical advantages over those who have effectively paid for the sport for the last decades.

I am convinced that a compromise will be found and it will not be a total cap at £40m.

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Totally agree Teacake - perhaps the FIA should fix an entry point minimum of say £40m but then subsidise new teams entry for say 2 years to the tune of a further £20m per year BUT no way give those teams favourable technical advantages over those who have effectively paid for the sport for the last decades.

I am convinced that a compromise will be found and it will not be a total cap at £40m.

You've got something there. There are massive revenues made from F1, some of it should be used to subsidise the less well-resourced teams directly, or there should be more opportunity to channel technology from the big teams to the small ones. Maybe we have to look again at the idea of customer chassis.

Like you, I think a compromise will be found, all we're seeing at the moment is brinksmanship from both sides. There'll be a meeting in the middle somewhere, because a failure to reach a compromise is in nobody's best interest.

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Would it really hit their sales that much? How many people buy a Ferrari for that exact reason?

Well probably not many these days, but they used to, sadly they are becoming more a posers toy than a proper tool, not that I'd turn one down of course!

The point is, that most of Ferraris revenue does not come from selling cars, most of it (like it always has done with Ferrari) comes from racing.

They were a racing team before they were a car manufacturer, and the potential lost revenue from pulling out of F1 could be catastrophic for Ferrari, they'd lose so much from sponsorship and marketing I don't believe they actually would pull out, call their bluff I say.

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Well probably not many these days, but they used to, sadly they are becoming more a posers toy than a proper tool, not that I'd turn one down of course!

The point is, that most of Ferraris revenue does not come from selling cars, most of it (like it always has done with Ferrari) comes from racing.

They were a racing team before they were a car manufacturer, and the potential lost revenue from pulling out of F1 could be catastrophic for Ferrari, they'd lose so much from sponsorship and marketing I don't believe they actually would pull out, call their bluff I say.

If FOTA broke up and some of the big players all decided to set up a new series then the Max and Bernie show would be left on the track with just a ball to kick about themselves, just see how quick the manufacturers and sponsors jump ship then leaving the FIA with nothing. I suspect MC, BMW and Williams will be watching this with a keen eye ready to sink their teeth into Bernie and Max.

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If FOTA broke up and some of the big players all decided to set up a new series then the Max and Bernie show would be left on the track with just a ball to kick about themselves, just see how quick the manufacturers and sponsors jump ship then leaving the FIA with nothing. I suspect MC, BMW and Williams will be watching this with a keen eye ready to sink their teeth into Bernie and Max.

I've wondered about this sort of thing before, when there was all that argument over the Concorde agreement a few years back and some of the teams threatened to set up their own series. It depends on the relationship between Formula 1 Management and the FIA and how much either of them is pushing these changes. Don't the FIA have control of the circuits and how racing on them is run? If the teams were to go their own way, could they bypass FoM and deal with the FIA direct, or could they bypass the FIA and deal with circuits direct? I suspect there'd be a lot of barriers and legal battles if they tried.

Edited by Teacake
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