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Wizbit

Tuning Box Vs. Remap

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I've been looking into a remap for my 3.0TDI A8 for a while now. I had also considered a Tuning Box plug in module as an alternative, but i can't help feeling they sound a bit dodgy?

From their website, the Tuning Box simply adjusts the diesel injection volume and duration, and leaves the turbo boost and ignition timing alone.

Surely if you are going to inject more fuel you need to compensate with more boost and ignition timings? The funny thing is, I know that a Tuning Box is reliable as i had one on my previous BMW and it worked with no problems whatsoever, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was working as well as a remap...

Comments welcomed.

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I've been looking into a remap for my 3.0TDI A8 for a while now. I had also considered a Tuning Box plug in module as an alternative, but i can't help feeling they sound a bit dodgy?

From their website, the Tuning Box simply adjusts the diesel injection volume and duration, and leaves the turbo boost and ignition timing alone.

Surely if you are going to inject more fuel you need to compensate with more boost and ignition timings? The funny thing is, I know that a Tuning Box is reliable as i had one on my previous BMW and it worked with no problems whatsoever, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was working as well as a remap...

Tuning Boxes basically just over-fuel the engine, which will generate more power but is also likely to generate more smoke.

A "proper" remap is the way to go IMHO.

BTW since there's no ignition on diesels a remap can't change ignition timing, but is will/should change injection timing.

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BTW since there's no ignition on diesels a remap can't change ignition timing, but is will/should change injection timing.

Oh yes..doh!

My BMW with Tuning Box fitted was very smokey under full throttle. I used to hate this, so maybe a 'proper' remap is indeed the way forward.

Quite amazing how Tuning Box are able to get the same power and torque levels as a remap just by over fueling.

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Quite amazing how Tuning Box claim to get the same power and torque levels as a remap just by over fueling.

Edited for accuracy +++

I had two types of tuning boxes before I got a remap on the same car. The remap was the best by far.

Hence I started selling them, and not tuning boxes ;)+++

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I do have a worry that with a remap, messing with the boost will shorten the turbo life and could lead to expensive bills, or at least a void warranty (of which i still have 18 months worth) if the turbo did blow.

Am I just being paranoid?

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There are lots of arguments for and against tuning boxes, and yes, ultimately a 'proper' remap will give better results, but you simply cant knock the results of tuning boxes for what you pay for them.

The other upside to tuning boxes is you can take them off when going in for servicing/warranty work so you keep your warranty intact, not to mention you can sell them on when you change cars and re-coup most of your money, which obviously you can't with a remap.

I've used tuning boxes on many cars and never had any adverse effects, most are adjustable now so you can fine tune them a bit to get the correct balance of power without excess smoke.

I'm a big fan of tuning boxes simply because they are plug and play and don't stress the turbo by increasing boost, and my cars are always under warranty.

I still have a tuning box for a 130pd engine sitting my garage waiting to go on ebay, and the box I had for my Mondeo actually produced better results and less smoke than the superchips re-map I had on it!

Personally, while your car is under warranty, I'd go for a tuning box, then once the warranty is out, sell it and get a 'proper' remap.

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Longevity isn't really a problem providing the map isn't too agressive. My A4 went on to 157k when I sold it, and my 100k+ miles Bora was sold to chasdrury on here who is still running it now.

Excess smoke is worse for a turbo than a little bit more boost.

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Totally agree with SHark.

A remap will not affect life of engine so long as it's good. A Tuning box will fool ECU into over fuelling, which will naturally result in higher boost - the issue is that the ECU is not controlling this higher boost, it's justa by product. Re map much safer in my opinion.

Use good quality fuel too, thats really important!

My A8 4.0TDi had covered 180k when it went! Perect operation - until the next owner underestimated the torque on tap and pilled into a car at a roundabout!!!!!! oops!

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A friend of mine had a B5 RS4 which was chucking out 550whp, he went from that to a C6 A6 avant 3.0LTDI which he had remapped by MRC to 320bhp!! This was independantly verified at surrey RR and even surprised the mapper!

The car is astonishing, 0-60 in 6.5seconds 165mph+ AND 45+MPG........Remap all the way buddy, I drove it and was amazed at the amount of torque and the range......

CheeRS Mooch

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A friend of mine had a B5 RS4 which was chucking out 550whp, he went from that to a C6 A6 avant 3.0LTDI which he had remapped by MRC to 320bhp!! This was independantly verified at surrey RR and even surprised the mapper!

The car is astonishing, 0-60 in 6.5seconds 165mph+ AND 45+MPG........Remap all the way buddy, I drove it and was amazed at the amount of torque and the range......

CheeRS Mooch

320bhp from just a map? Hmm.

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remap all the way from me too however a full custom remap will get the best from the engine etc rather than an off-the-shelf jobbie. There are few people who can do true custom remaps now. Re: MRC - I've experienced Minhea's magic also as have numerous other people. Minhea's a true remapper who really knows the insides of the ECU - and doesn't use other people's technology! +++

Edited by sitas3

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Another mate has an A3 2.0ltdi, which Minhea mapped at the saem time as the A6, and got that from 170 to 240bhp, the guy is a wizzard, and that comes from someone who not a customer of his!

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Another mate has an A3 2.0ltdi, which Minhea mapped at the saem time as the A6, and got that from 170 to 240bhp, the guy is a wizzard, and that comes from someone who not a customer of his!

wizzard.jpg

:confused:

Anyway, back to remaps. Another ridiculous figure. The 170 is good for about 220bhp with the DPF removed. With the DPF on you're looking around 200.

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Why is it rediculous? Because you cannot achieve those types of numbers? Sounds like the age old mappers rivalry to me...... ;)

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Not really, those figures are beyond the capabilities of the standard engine, no software changes can net you that increase simple as that. If it was possible and it was safe, don't you think we'd all be doing it? Quart out of a pint pot and all that.

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Well, all i can go by is the dyno plots from one of the most respected RR's in the country, but hey i aint a mapper or even know too much about anything other than the RS6, so I shan't argue with you, would be like me telling a brain surgeon who to perform a lobotomy!

But anyhoo...It would appear, that to answer the chaps question, that a re-map is the way forward, agreed?

Sorry for the slight swerve in the topic......

Mooch

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But anyhoo...It would appear, that to answer the chaps question, that a re-map is the way forward, agreed?

Personally no, but it depends what you want really, in terms of £ per horsepower, and not voiding your warranty (unless caught) you cant beat a tuning box, but ideally the 'proper' solution is a re-map.

That however opens up another whole new debate about a generic remap, or a proper live re-map.

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You won't get a live remap on a VAG car these days.

Thats interesting, being one of the biggest markets (when you include the whole VAG group) you'd think people would be falling over themselves to offer live remaps?

How do you account for individual mods without doing the remap 'live'? I always thought that was pretty much the main benefit?

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Thats interesting, being one of the biggest markets (when you include the whole VAG group) you'd think people would be falling over themselves to offer live remaps?

How do you account for individual mods without doing the remap 'live'? I always thought that was pretty much the main benefit?

It's not possible. A tuner has to flash the ECU, test it, edit the map (offline), reflash the ECU, test again etc. This is why the "custom" and "generic" remap thing is such a farce. Everyone presumes that to do a custom remap it must be done on the rolling road where in reality just about all "custom" tunes start from a map that was already developed.

Live mapping using emulators in VAG cars died with the S2 I think, although it's before my time so I can't be 100% sure.

I'm sure that all current cars are the same. I don't know of any that can be live mapped.

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Even with aftermarket ECUs like I've got on the Golf, you can't map live - you have to download the map, tweak it, upload it and the ECU resets itself.

There's a fundamental difference, though, between applying a map that's originally been custom written for a car model X on a rolling road, then is sold and applied generically to all models of that car and setting up a map for a specific car, based on all its mods.

For the second one, you've got to measure the Air Fuel Ratio (AFR) and Exhaust Gas Temperatures (EGT) to get everything set up properly to avoid problem with detonation (pinking) (stick with me Ben, I'm trying to write this in fairly simplistic terms!).

When I stick the bigger turbo and injectors on the Golf, it'll be on the dyno for a full day to get the map set up spot on to get the most out of all of the mods on the car so I can get the 300bhp per tonne I'm after :D

Full dyno days cost money - generic/"custom" remaps you get from companies like Shark, APS, Revo etc don't typically include dyno time, because of the cost of running the dyno.

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It's not possible. A tuner has to flash the ECU, test it, edit the map (offline), reflash the ECU, test again etc. This is why the "custom" and "generic" remap thing is such a farce. Everyone presumes that to do a custom remap it must be done on the rolling road where in reality just about all "custom" tunes start from a map that was already developed.

Live mapping using emulators in VAG cars died with the S2 I think, although it's before my time so I can't be 100% sure.

I'm sure that all current cars are the same. I don't know of any that can be live mapped.

The B5 S4/RS4 can be live mapped via an emulator which is what Mihnea (of MRC fame) did for both my S4 (430BHP) and my RS4 (530 BHP). When he mapped my A6 3.0Tdi we did a number of flash/test/flash cycles. The A6 3.0Tdi was 225BHP standard and made 290BHP & 415lb/ft at Surrey Rolling Road and the 2.0Tdi A3 Mihnea remapped on the same day on my drive (home tuning !) made 220BHP at Surrey RR.

Mihnea has had a A4 3.0Tdi (240BHP standard) make 320BHP in France and he could have run 310 BHP & 435 lb/ft on mine except mine is a 6-speed manual and didn't like the torque. Auto would have been fine though apparently. MRC charge around £500 for this service so a little different to the +30HP £20 remap.

Edited by Jeffw

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could you please tell as which was the manufacturer of the box and how many km you kept it and in which car ? 

There are lots of arguments for and against tuning boxes, and yes, ultimately a 'proper' remap will give better results, but you simply cant knock the results of tuning boxes for what you pay for them.

The other upside to tuning boxes is you can take them off when going in for servicing/warranty work so you keep your warranty intact, not to mention you can sell them on when you change cars and re-coup most of your money, which obviously you can't with a remap.

I've used tuning boxes on many cars and never had any adverse effects, most are adjustable now so you can fine tune them a bit to get the correct balance of power without excess smoke.

I'm a big fan of tuning boxes simply because they are plug and play and don't stress the turbo by increasing boost, and my cars are always under warranty.

I still have a tuning box for a 130pd engine sitting my garage waiting to go on ebay, and the box I had for my Mondeo actually produced better results and less smoke than the superchips re-map I had on it!

Personally, while your car is under warranty, I'd go for a tuning box, then once the warranty is out, sell it and get a 'proper' remap.

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could you please tell as which was the manufacturer of the box and how many km you kept it and in which car ?

My Skoda Superb 130PD had a Dragon digital tuning box, and covered something like 180,000 miles.

I can't remember the make of the box I had on my Ford Mondeo ST TDCi, but that did 100,000 miles with it on, and about 60,000 miles with a Superchips Bluefin map before that.

Edited by Tipex

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This thread must have a high result on google - look how many views its had!  :uhoh:

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