VW GT

Where is the power steering reservoir? - Golf MK5 2.0 FSI

21 posts in this topic

Hi, This may sound really stupid of me but I am in the process of checking the fluid levels on my car (Golf MK5 2.0 FSI) and can't seem to find the power steering reservoir.

I have searched high and low (owner's manual, tyresmoke etc) but can't find it :mad:.........I can locate the brake fluid, washer fluid, oil, coolant BUT not the power steering...........your help would be very much appreciated!

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It should be in the manual - might be called the Mineral Hydraulic Fluid reservoir?

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Electric pump maybe, but it'll still have a hydraulic rack which will need fluid.

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Electro-mechanical +++

Fluid will be in a black reservoir with a dark green top.

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thanks for your replies folks.....I was informed today that the Golf MK5 does not have a reservoir! Surely there is some form of lubrication needed for the steering........mook, I can't see it in the engine bay.....where is it (black reservoir with dark green top)?

thanks

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From what you're saying, it'll be a sealed system - non-serviceable.

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Electric pump maybe, but it'll still have a hydraulic rack which will need fluid.

Its sealed and isn't user serviceable hence there is no resevoir or level that can be checked/topped up by the owner.

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Typical VW sh1te then!

Never been a fan of this sealed for life stuff, don't like the idea of all the swarf etc staying inside anything thats sealed, rather than being flushed out with a fluid change!

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I've never understood the backlash (excuse the pun) to sealed for life gearboxes etc.

Firstly, there is no swarf in a gear box as swarf is a bi-product of machining and all the components would be thoroughly cleaned before assembly. As gears bed in and wear they will work harden and over a long period of time you may get metal flakes detaching. These are invariably harmless and do not accelerate the wear. As gears get considerably older you can get pitting where small pockets of material detach. Again, perfectly normal (a 'normal' industrial gearbox for example can lose 40% of the contact surface area of a tooth through pitting before it's considered detrimental to performance). As long as any debris are contained in the 'box, it isn't going to cause damage - the material that detaches is invariably softer than the gears so is does not cause extensive damage.

I'd guess the gears in automotive gearboxes are hardened anyway which makes them very resistant to pitting.

Problems occur when the material enters bearings or clogs lubrication channels. As long as bearings are sealed and lubricated then it's not a problem. It's common practice (or was when I worked in industrial gearbox design) to fit a magnetic plug in a gearbox and as far as I'm aware, car gearboxes (and diffs?) also have them. They are not there to collect massive amounts of debris and be cleaned every year, they are there to help contain the natural shedding of material that is present in any gearbox during its life and their size in a 'sealed for life' gearbox will have been calculated for exactly that; to collect the expected debris produced during the life of the gearbox.

That's not to say there's nothing to be gained by changing oils etc during its life. It may extend a gearbox's life from 100k miles to 150k miles for all I know. Only it's not designed to do 150k under normal use, 100k may be its calculated life. Changing its oil every 10k miles in order to extend its life may be false economy for example.

There. I've said it.

Edited by Milo

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Seems like a bit of a contradiction going on there, so basically, the ability to change the oil may result in a longer service life, which is better for everyone except the mechanic/parts supplier :rolleyes:

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Not really, it comes down to money.

I don't know how the automotive industry cost the life cycle of a typical gearbox.

It could be 150k miles with zero maintenance for all I know which could see it through the typical car's lifetime. It may well be possible to extend that to 200k with regular oil changes but at what cost those oil changes? They're not going to change the service schedule and add ££s onto every owners' maintenance costs in order to cater for those relatively few cars who may do 200k+ miles in their lifetime.

Taking it to the extreme, you could drain and replace every fluid from a car at 10k mile intervals and I daresay you could extend the life of many components. But at what cost financially?

Things like variable servicing were introduced to extend service intervals and reduce ownership costs so lumping unnecessary oil changes into service plans defeats the object.

Gearboxes are like any other component though, some will fail prematurely and others will last surprisingly longer than expected.

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A8 (BM and other ZF supplied) auto boxes were supposed to be fill and forget - but these go wrong with all the swarf build up. Many an A8 box has gone wrong due to this and the electro-connectors not picking up the correct signals due to black fluid in the box. The original fluid is silverish, but after 40K + miles in an A8, turns black.

This means the gearbox looses track of what and when and will all that power going through it - it breaks.

Not so much an issue with manual, but all power wagons with ZF auto boxes, need a fluid change after 40K or so miles to ensure logevity.

All auto cars I get (even older GM ones) I get the fluid changed ASAP!

The difference is amazing in smoothness of change!

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Arrrrggggh, it's not swarf :grin:

This is swarf: http://www.nakka-rocketry.net/nozmach/swarf.jpg

If you find swarf in a gearbox it's either been there from Day 1 or there is a mini-lathe, a pillar drill or some other machining centre tucked away in there you can't see :roflmao:

The oil blackens because of carbon leeching out of the material. If A8 'boxes regularly go wrong then there is obviously a design flaw.

Out of interest, when you say it breaks, how does it break? Do the bearings fail or do teeth fail? Or does it fail by some other means?

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I dont doubt you are correct, but for your average non engineer, the term swarf happily describes the cr@p that comes out of your gearbox etc due to the wear and tear of daily life.

I can only speak for myself, but I'd happily add a few extra pounds (that's all it is really) to the cost of my service, rather than have to fork out hundreds when my 'sealed for life' steering rack fails, similarly, if buying a used car, I'd rather buy one with a complete service history that includes such fluid changes.

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Arrrrggggh, it's not swarf :grin:

This is swarf: http://www.nakka-rocketry.net/nozmach/swarf.jpg

If you find swarf in a gearbox it's either been there from Day 1 or there is a mini-lathe, a pillar drill or some other machining centre tucked away in there you can't see :roflmao:

The oil blackens because of carbon leeching out of the material. If A8 'boxes regularly go wrong then there is obviously a design flaw.

Out of interest, when you say it breaks, how does it break? Do the bearings fail or do teeth fail? Or does it fail by some other means?

Fair enough, swarf is an exaggeration! I do know what swarf is - having been an engineering Appo after leaving school!

In the A8 boxes, there are magnets in the base and do pick up the minute metallic parts. Have a look back in the A8 section and you'll find stories of woe about the early 5 speed Tip A8 gearbox made by ZF.

I know a few BMW 7's with the same box have had the same issues - necessitating a rebuild or swap.

Design flaw was due to the boxes being sealed for life. Many people/garages think this and do not touch them. when I had my 8, I took it to St Albans Audi (2003???) and got them to change the fluid - this was the first one they'd done!!!

Swapping the fluid does deliver a marked difference in smoothness!

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Typical VW sh1te then!

Never been a fan of this sealed for life stuff, don't like the idea of all the swarf etc staying inside anything thats sealed, rather than being flushed out with a fluid change!

Tipex, as an avid fan of VAG group cars, I will continue to own and purchase VW's and Audi's regardless of whether the units are sealed or not.

For your information, over 90% of engineering components will fail to due fatigue (S-N Curve for fatigue - the number of cycles to failure).

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S-N Curve for fatigue

That brings back memories! Those and FMEA.

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LOL you guys just started an argument on a wrong start, for info the steering system is sealed because it doesn't have any kind of fluid in it, Tipex you assumed it used an electric pump while in reality it has a and electric motor strapped directly to the the rack to assist the steering (uses grease between the electric motor gear and the rack).1k2423055.jpg

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Holy thread resurrection Batman!

I think your definition of "just started an argument" may need to be revisited........ This was over 6 years ago!

Edited by E-bmw

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