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Backdraft power kits, rocky r

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I think I'm probably going to get a power upgrade on the rocky.

It's not as if it's slow, in fact it's anything but with fantastic, liniar power from very early in the rev range. There is not much I can't overtake and the thing seems like it's always on boost. In standard form in the wet it can spin in third gear, but in the dry it has very little trouble getting off the line under hard load with little traction loss.

I use backdraft for the rs and consider mark a mate who has done excellent work and provides service bar none. My question, or rather concern is that a map could ruin the perfect balance the car currently has - however I am fully aware you don't know the best until you have tried it.

There seems to be 2 options on the site.

1. A revo map which gives around 310bhp and much better torques.

2. A map with full blue flame zorst and high flow cat which gets around 370bhp.

I'm not really the sort of bloke that does halfs but would the rocky handle 370bhp through the front wheels? With the LSD and overworked power steering I dint think torque steer will be a problem. Pesky power delivery however may not be as nice and I'll probably have to upgrade pads, fluid and bradded hoses.

The engine is the me as the s3 and improvements must be similar. Anyone on here who has tried it or has views?

As said only toying with the idea at the moment, but really grown attached to the car and as it's my daily use I think it's fair to have a bit of fun with it.

BDM 2.0 TFSi (K04) Stage 1 Upgrade | Shop VAG 2.0Tfsi | Backdraft Motorsport

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You won't get 370bhp without a whole host of work.

Our Stage 1 software on the S3 gives 320hp (dyno'd at 323hp).

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Sam, I wouldn't advise going near Backdraft. They're not called Backshaft in the industry for no reason...

The engine you run will give 340-350bhp and 340-350 torques with a proper remap, full Milltek and hi-flow cats if you keep the standard turbo. End of.

TBH though, that'll be more than enough :D

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Sam, I wouldn't advise going near Backdraft. They're not called Backshaft in the industry for no reason...

:) I think they look after the Woppy RS?

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i agrew with the above. the rocco R has the same spec 2.0 k04 TFSI enigne as in the ed30 GTI/cupra/S3 etc and not the TSI as your engine cover might have you believe. the differences are in the standard tuning in the ECU.

stage 1 will see upto 300Hp, stage 2 with exhaust/intake upto 340hp the only way of getting close to 360 is with the HPFP as well.

you also need to be on a generous Rolling road a well. most stage 2+guys make between 340-360Hp/with 340-360Ibft

some dyno graphs in here for you to have a look at The ultimate Dyno Graph thread

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Sorry, but you won't get close to 360 out of that unit, no matter how much fuel you throw through it. You can uprate the injectors as well, but the stock turbo just doesn't have the capacity to force through that much air. Even a hybrid K04 with K06 internals won't take you that far.

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Sam, I wouldn't advise going near Backdraft. They're not called Backshaft in the industry for no reason...

The engine you run will give 340-350bhp and 340-350 torques with a proper remap, full Milltek and hi-flow cats if you keep the standard turbo. End of.

TBH though, that'll be more than enough :D

Lol, agree sounds plenty.

What have you heard about them? They have done a great job setting up the rs.

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What have you heard about them?

Race team owners and drivers and tuners don't rate them in the VW 1.8T tuning scene at all.

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He does all the ex bows with kits up to 400bhp, set up a few of pgts gt3s and superlegovers.

As said he has done a storming g job settting up the rs and is very reasonable in terms of price. Nice bloke too so I wouldn't be worried

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Sorry, but you won't get close to 360 out of that unit, no matter how much fuel you throw through it. You can uprate the injectors as well, but the stock turbo just doesn't have the capacity to force through that much air. Even a hybrid K04 with K06 internals won't take you that far.

yes you can. although most cars ith their everyday settings return around 350Hp. Hybridized k04 turbos produce around the 400Hp marker(and thats on dyno dynamic rollers). no need to uprate the injectors at this point unless you go for a big turbo, its the HPFP and fuel pressure regulator that are the key parts to change.

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Sorry Janner - you're wrong or you've been looking at a massively over-optimistic dyno.

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to be honest i wouldnt trust any dyno at all, esp at a tuners. read outs are all over the place.

the way i see it, either it makes the car faster/better or it dosent.

its perfect the way it is, but im sure it could handle more power.

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ive been and seen them personally oon a few different on dyno dynamics rolling road days (which read lower than pretty much all the other dynos) and all the other standard cars have made quoted figures, along with all the other staged cars making as expected as well.

not all stage 2+ cars make the full wack but the REVO cars can make that but tend to wind the timing back slightly to reduce timing pull. more common place people predict 340-360hp

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not all stage 2+ cars make the full wack but the REVO cars can make that but tend to wind the timing back slightly to reduce timing pull. more common place people predict 340-360hp

Which is interesting because if you saw how much the knock protection and retardation maps have been played with in that company's ED30 Stage2+ map, it must be REALLY knocking to even think about pulling the timing, and when it does the retardation maps are zero'd!

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Could you explain a little of the above for those of us not technically competent?

I think i understand that 'knock protection' is to do with early detonation of fuel due to pressure, but what it actually is or how it works is a differnt thing.

Interested though as may be going down a remap route soon.

Cheers!

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Knock (also known as pinking) detection is used on all the modern VW group petrol engines.

When it's detected, the ecu will retard the timing and (depending on the map) will richen the mixture, chucking more fuel in.

Running lean causes knock because the air fuel mixture detonates due to the heat, rather than because of the spark from the plug. Hot running leads to melted pistons and valves which, while not always terminal, will normally need a full rebuild.

HTH

:beer:

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Thaks very much Mook,

So by mapping with increased boost and therefore more air, the engine needs to compensate by adding more fuel, stabilisig the mixture, hence all the talk about bigger fuel pumps and injectors! (Penny drops....)

i presume that the standard turbo vents boost somehow once it detects it has reached a set level? and that a remap stops that venting and increases fuel delivery? just a guess...

Sorry for the basic questions!

+++

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Yes, you have to increase the amount of fuel being injected based on the amount of air being forced in - this is meaured using what is known as the AFR (air/fuel ratio). But you don't have to use bigger fuel pumps and injectors unless you're going for serious power hikes. The ECU can be mapped to trigger the injectors to inject for longer for each cycle, hence more fuel.

Once you want to get to bigger power, by increasing the volume of air the turbo is forcing through, you have to look very carefully at the size of the injectors, otherwise they will max out - e.g. the ECU will be wanting to inject more fuel than the injectors can physically deliver.

There's two ways of fixing this - one is to increase the fuel pressure, by fitting a higher capacity FPR (fuel pressure regulator). To give you an idea, the injectors in my track toy will run at 480cc at 3 bar of fuel pressure and 550cc at 4 bar of fuel pressure, but that's to get over 325bhp out of a 1.8 20v turbo engine with a hybrid K04 turbo (K04 with RS6 K06 internals).

The stock injectors in the Scirocco R, Golf R, S3, Cupra R etc will cope with 330bhp without any problems - the standard K04 turbo won't deliver more air to take you over that.

When a car is being custom remapped (as opposed to having a generic remap uploaded to the ECU), you have to measure the AFR and the EGT (exhuast gas temperatures) to make sure the mixture is right. Too lean and you'll do long term damage and too rich and you'll also cause long term damage (to the catalytic converter) and your performance will be affected.

It's not a black art, but you do have to know what you're doing!

As for the question about the turbo "venting", you have what's called a wastegate on a turbo (there's different types of wastegate, but this thread isn't the place to go into that!). The wastegate is opened when it's told to by the actuator - these can be mechanical or electronic. The wastegate actuator on your car is mechanically activated.

The way this works is with what's called an N75 valve (that's just a VW reference) which is measuring how much pressure the turbo is creating - this information is being constantly passed to the ECU. When the pressure gets to the threshold set in the map on the ECU at the revs set in the map, the ECU tells the N75 to actuate - it creates a vacuum, which mechanically opens the wastegate (gently rather than wide open, otherwise you'd get a drop in turbo pressure and a bunny-hopping car!) and any excess exhaust pressure is vented into the downpipe, so it's not trying to force the turbo round even quicker than it is at that time.

You'll hear people talking about how much boost they're running - this is the maximum amount of boost that the turbo is generating before the wastegate is opened. By way of example, when I'm running 270bhp on my track toy, it's running 1.35 bar of boost. When I'm running 300, it's 1.5 bar of boost etc.

If I was running a standard K04 turbo, which doesn't breathe as well, I'd have to run higher boost to get the same amount of air flowing. In general, running massive amounts of boost doesn't always mean you're getting great power delivery - the important thing is the volume of air you're delivering.

Blimey - that's a lot for a Thursday morning :P

HTH

:beer:

Edited by Mook

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Thanks Mook!

Right, thats me decided then.

I find this all very interesting and i think a turbo charged car to play with a remap will satify my mid life crisis.

I had thought about a remap on the A6, but am scared of warranty issues given it broke down on day 3 with a faultly MAF unit....

We should start a remaps and forced air induction tech thread.....

+++

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We should start a remaps and forced air induction tech thread.....

Go on then :grin:

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Ooooh, how interesting ... today I have learnt something new!!

Not sure this is one for conversation tomorrow at the school Macmillan coffee morning tho', damn shame!! :rolleyes:

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