NewNiceMrMe Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 (edited) I think I'm struggling to put my point across effectively and I'm not trying to say you're completely wrong. I do also admit I am the exception and not the rule where boxing is concerned. What I would say in closing from my side though is that it began to become unsustainable and there was a two year period in the wilderness for the sport before PPV came about. Prior to that, viewing choice on TV in general was much less. There weren't hundreds of channels for people to watch in boxings hey-day, so a lot of viewers were almost forced to watch it. The proliferation of channels impacted it massively, as it did numerous other minority sports. You only need to look at FA Cup final viewing figures to see that. In the 70's and 80's they were double what they are now, yet the match is still on free to view TV. There are others reasons, such as the devaluation of the trophy in general, but viewing choice is a big factor. Edited May 18, 2011 by MrMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy2shots Posted May 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 MrMe I am not saying you are naive because you chose to spend 15 pounds of your own money on what is a poor night of boxing. I know you are a big boxing fan, I also know you have a large disposable income. I thought you comment that real boxing fans will pay it and those that have a slight interest or no interest will not buy it, was naive. Example 1. My friend is a huge fan, I love boxing but he bores me to death talking about 17 year old amatures to look out for in the future. He will spend a night out on the town talking about nothing but boxing. However said friend only earns minimum wage and he would need to work 3 hours just to watch this weekends action. He just can't justify that to his girlfriend and young child. Example 2. My uncle who I consider to be a wealthy man has no interest in boxing what so ever. On a Friday and Saturday night his house is like an open house and there are always a minimum of 5 friends or family thete, sometimes up to 15. You just walk in and there are bottles of wine and beer in every reception room (4 of them) platesof food out etc etc. He also has about 5 TVs on in the communal areas all showing ppv films and sporting events. So this weeks boxing will be bought and will be on a tv in his house but depending on who is there it might not even be watched. This is an extreme example but my point is there will be many people up and down the country who are slight or non boxing fans but still buy the ppv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4ttm4son Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 I think this is the point: PPV = cash Terrestrial = viewers From all the arguments between Klitsh and Haye about % share of the revenue, it seems obvious what everyone in the sport wants. The FA Cup Final is shown on Terrestrial, not because it gets the best bid, but because that is what they want for the sport. There's enough money in the sale of the rest of the games to Sky Sports etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy2shots Posted May 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 I think this is the point:PPV = cash Terrestrial = viewers From all the arguments between Klitsh and Haye about % share of the revenue, it seems obvious what everyone in the sport wants. The FA Cup Final is shown on Terrestrial, not because it gets the best bid, but because that is what they want for the sport. There's enough money in the sale of the rest of the games to Sky Sports etc. In a nutshell yes. I'm going to confuse things more though because I do agree with Pay per view where its warrented. If it helps make the Super Fights like Haye v Klitschko then I think thats fair enough. This and other top fights might not happen if the purse was not great enough. My problem is that they are really pushing what they can get away with and they only do that because people pay the money. If they don't cash in enough on this weeks PPV then the next time a non world title fight is planned between two young guys, it will be shown on Sky sports weekly Friday Fight Night where it belongs. Millions of homes around the country pay £40-£50 quid a month for subscription to Sky/Cable with the Sports Pack but are asked to pay again for a small event like this Saturday. In short I guess what I'm saying in Football terms is this. Barcelona V Man U in Champions league final. If it was PPV would I have a problem with it? No Bournemouth V Huddersfield in League one Play off. If it was PPV would I have a problem with it? Hell yes. I don't care if the two hate each other like Groves and Degale, I also don't care if both teams are "showing promise". The game in the grand scheme of things is small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malagus Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 I wonder, would sky eventually get more people watching the PPVs if they showed the lesser fights on normal sky sports, perhaps attracting people to get into the sport, and follow fighters through to big title fights etc, which would then be on PPV. Or is the appeal of boxing too tightly defined to grab casual viewers and convert them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy2shots Posted May 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 I wonder, would sky eventually get more people watching the PPVs if they showed the lesser fights on normal sky sports, perhaps attracting people to get into the sport, and follow fighters through to big title fights etc, which would then be on PPV. Or is the appeal of boxing too tightly defined to grab casual viewers and convert them? They do mate. Every Friday is Friday Fight Night. Normally a fight the size of Groves v Degale would be shown on that show. They are testing the water making this a ppv. If enough people are prepared to to pay the money then god knows where it will stop. If people voted with their feet so to speak and didn't pay up then it would force them to think twice about what they show on ppv. Of course people will just chuck money at this which imho fuels the vicious circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 Bournemouth V Huddersfield in League one Play off. If it was PPV would I have a problem with it? Hell yes. I don't care if the two hate each other like Groves and Degale, I also don't care if both teams are "showing promise". The game in the grand scheme of things is small. Tell you what, whilst I agree with that, that was the best football match I've seen in at least a year. Absolutely first class entertainment from start to end (and as a neutral I didn't want it to end). It was a brilliant advertisement for League football and the play-offs. Credit to both teams and it was a shame there had to be a loser. It was fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy2shots Posted May 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 Tell you what, whilst I agree with that, that was the best football match I've seen in at least a year. Absolutely first class entertainment from start to end (and as a neutral I didn't want it to end). It was a brilliant advertisement for League football and the play-offs. Credit to both teams and it was a shame there had to be a loser. It was fantastic. It's funny, great games don't seem so great when it ends in heart ache. Mind you we (bournemouth) over achieved just making the play offs. Every time a forward scored a few goals another team just bought him. It happened 3 times and no team can keep losing their best players. Bournemouth have always been in a financial mess since I was a kid (probably harry overspending again). A guy I play football and drink with, his uncle is the owner/chairman and the future isn't all that great. Back to the boxing. It's turning into more of a farce now with the supposed main event changing more times than my babies happy. Cleverly v Brehmer (sp) called off because Brehmer is injured. Cleverly is now the champ. Well done cleverly....... New match made last night, Cleverly vs Bellew. Now that's called off because Bellew couldn't make the weight. Now this pay per view main event is Cleverly v kuziemski a last minute replacement. It just gets worse and worse. sky should refund anyone who has already paid and just show it on sky sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 Verdict: Cleverly fight was a fix. Not a cat in hells chance that it should have been stopped - I think Warren pulled the plug because the guy was troubling Nathan. No doubt about it. I really, really, really, didn't enjoy watching that. Makes me feel sick to think they might have fixed that. DeGale v Groves - well that surprised me. Not the fight itself, but the MD to Groves. I had DeGale by 1 or 2 rounds, probably about 115-113, but two judges scored it a 115-115 and then the other have it to Groves. A very good boxing match though. I don't think either deserved to lose and I think it should have probably gone to a draw if they felt it was close. For me, the fight was worth the £15 alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy2shots Posted May 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 One judge had it as a draw and two gave it to Grove by a point. My heart said draw but my head said Degale by one round. Remember though Degale did throw in a shoulder and an elbow so could easily have been deducted a point. I was jumping up and down when the result came in. Degale is a horrible little man and I think his cocky attitude cost him. His antics and the way he is always make him the pantomime villain and in a close fight that came back to bite him on the arse. In close rounds Degales punches were met with silence, where as anything Groves through eS cheered loudly. Think that may have influenced the judges. I was surprised to see the computer saying Groves through and landed more punches. Agree about the cleverly fight, total fix. As soon as it was in the 4th and a result could be reached Frank Warren pulled the plug. The Pole came to fight and shock Cleverly who imho would have been out of his depth against Brehmer (sp). The cuts were no worse than Groves. Mind you did you see Warren shouting at Degale between rounds and when Groves cut his forehead Warren was screaming at the doctor to check him. Billy Joe Saunders looked great. Franky Gavin looked poor, cold last week or not. Put him in a ring will Kell Brook and he will get messed up. He needs to stop partying lose a bit of weight and drop back down a division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Yes, sorry, I transposed my scorecards earlier. Even if DeGale has been deducted a point for the elbow (which he should have been) it should have been a draw. I just don't see how the judges scored the fight and most fight forums were shocked with the result (I'd say about 9-1 in terms of people thinking DeGale/Groves had won). DeGale is a poor person at the PR game, but being the pantomine villain has worked for a lot of boxers over the years (Eubank for one in his first 5-7 years of boxing until people realised he was actually just a total loon!). Saunders was very impressive, I agree. Gavin demonstrated why I got flamed on a forum and then got a few apologies - he doesn't have a punch. He has a fantastic boxing skillset, possibly the best at any divison in this country, but he lacks even the mediocre power he is going to need in my opinion. He has long since been regarded as 'world class' and in terms of pure boxing he is, but I just don't understand his mentality at times. He's one of those one isn't too interested in entertaining or getting to the end sooner - he's on record as saying there is 12 rounds in a match and he'll take 12 rounds. He does of course have a good point - because I don't think even Brook could outbox him....but he wouldn't need to. Brook would destroy him within 4-5 rounds. Did you see the remnants of the ringside fight between Tyson Fury and Derek Chisora? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy2shots Posted May 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Only saw the crowd looking over and thought it was kicking off between Degale and Groves fans, then the commentators said it was Chisora and Fury. Not much of a shock because we all know Chisora is an attention hore and probably saw his chance to grab some lines in the sunday papers. They are due to fight soon anyway. Agree Gavin has little punching power at any weight hence my comment of dropping back down a weight class. Taking my little girl to the beach in a minute but really looking forward to the Hopkins fight when I get back. Please don't post the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Okay, I won't say who won but you'll probably enjoy the fight. I can't stand Hopkins but I'd best not say anything else or it'll give the result away. You should also go and see Round 10 of the Denis Lebedev v Roy Jones Jnr. Keep watching it to the end of the round. Brutal, absolutely brutal - and I do hope he calls it a day now because for one of the greatest of all-time to be getting this done to him is very sad to see and it has been going on for too long now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stooH Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 I've just watched the 10th round of that fight on YouTube, it was beyond brutal, that final punch when the ref was stepping in was completely unnecessary, he knew Jones had no defence and just thought 'fook it I'll have some fun and finish him off' and landed that massive blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy2shots Posted May 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Bloody sky sports news. They have been advertising the Hopkins fight for the last week for 11am this morning. 5 minutes before it starts they say the result. Hate knowing results, scores etc if I'm going to watch it later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Well now that you know the result... I can't stand that guy. No-one would get away with the things he says from a racist point of view if roles were reversed, but he is left to his own devices time and time again. I also cannot abide his unsporting nature when he loses. His behaviour and comments after Calzaghe gave him a boxing lesson were disgraceful. Whilst he is clearly one of the best boxers of all-time and this achievement is quite remarkable, he couldn't have hand picked an opponent better than Pascal. He suited him down to the ground. His antics in the seventh round were another sign of his crossing the line in sporting terms too - doing push ups between rounds to entice the crowed and intimidate Pascal (which it certainly did). Mind you, they needed entertaining because it was a pretty crap fight in all other respects. I just wish Calzaghe had offered him a rematch in England/Wales. He'd have beaten him again and silenced some of those that think his record doesn't stand up to Hopkins. All Joe's critics were saying he fought a Hopkins past his sell-by date - yet since then he's proven himself to be near the top of his game yet again. But do those critics hand Calzaghe plaudits in retrospect? No. There's no sign of them when you mention his name. Incidentally, Tim Bradley had ducked Amir Khan. He was offered $1.4m and half the PPV revenues - and he's said no. That's a terrible injustice to fans who wanted to see if he could cope with Khan and if Khan could handle someone with very silky boxing skills, but he's trying to blame promoters and not being able to 'get the deal done' when Golden Boy Promotions made it very clear it'd be by far the biggest pay day of his career. It would seem that he thinks Bob Arum can offer him a shot at Manny Pacquiao - and I think he's in cloud cuckoo land if he thinks that'll happen. Even if it does, it'll be short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 I've just watched the 10th round of that fight on YouTube, it was beyond brutal, that final punch when the ref was stepping in was completely unnecessary, he knew Jones had no defence and just thought 'fook it I'll have some fun and finish him off' and landed that massive blow. Indeed. Jones' showboating a couple of mins earlier probably didn't help though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy2shots Posted May 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Where did you see the Jones jnr fight? On tinternt or tv? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxyboy Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Where did you see the Jones jnr fight? On tinternt or tv? Sky 404 at 11 am this morning Ignore that, that was the Hopkins fight, doh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stooH Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Where did you see the Jones jnr fight? On tinternt or tv? YouTube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Internet, via one of the forums I frequent (though to be honest I only watched 8-10). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 (edited) Update on this... Cleverly is asking to fight Hopkins. As in Bernard Hopkins, just to clear that up if anyone thought "Surely he wouldn't be stupid enough to challenge THE Hopkins...". Well yes, he has been stupid enough. I pray it doesn't happen. Cleverly has already demonstrated he has less defence than a defenceless thing - so the last thing he needs is one of the worlds most cunning counter punches waiting for him to lunge in and then knock his head off. Cleverly is very good but he seems to think he's Joe Calzaghe already. The problem is he doesn't have a huge punch, he doesn't have a defence, he loses his cool much quicker than Calzaghe ever did, he doesn't seem to have much of a chin and.....he has Frank Warren managing him. He smothers people - and that's a problem if your opponent has one of the best defences ever seen. To me that means a fight with Hopkins is the equivalent of career suicide. Calzaghe was immensely clever in his boxing and experience meant he knew how to open Hopkins up - but Cleverly will be cannon fodder. Edited May 22, 2011 by MrMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizzbitt Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 to quote Ben Dirs on this very subject... Now is the time for Warren to tug on Cleverly's reins. The 24-year-old is an exciting talent with a dazzling variety of shots, but Hopkins, and even Pascal, would be too soon. Liverpool's Tony Bellew, who bangs hard and makes lots of noise, would be a more sensible short-term option. Hopkins can keep until he is 50. I watched the Degale/Groves fight on youtube last night and was very surprised the way Groves fought and like others have said wanted him to win over DeGale because for a reason i cant put my finger on, i just dont like him. Im chuffed for Hopkins as he was robbed against Valuev all those moons ago and its an outstanding feat and record to win a belt at his age. Granted he aint exactly the most 'sportsman' chap you will ever meet but thats just the way he is. Will have to watch the full fight later on tonight if i get chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizzbitt Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 Hopkins fight - Links in the description as it was pulled for copyright... YouTube - Bernard Hopkins Vs Jean Pascal ll - [1/4] DeGale fight YouTube - James DeGale Vs George Groves - Part 1 of 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy2shots Posted May 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Groves V Degale tonight at 8pm sky sports 2 if anyone hasn't seen it and wants to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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