patently Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 Entirely hypothetical, you understand... Let's say your friend was a partner in a professional firm, and was present at a partners' meeting at which one of his staff was making submissions to the partnership regarding his terms & conditions. Let's also say that your friend was in fact in total agreement with the member of staff's point of view, and had previously proposed what the member of staff was now asking for, but had been over-ruled by his other partners. He was (therefore) now sitting back and allowing the other partners to defend the partnership position in the face of the member of staff's comments. In that discussion, one of the other partners neatly crushes the member of staff's point, by making a factual point which undermines the member of staff's entire argument - specifically, that the member of staff is already being offered terms & conditions that are substantially better than those which applied to that partner back when he was in that member of staff's position (10 years previously...). Your friend knows that fact to be untrue. After the member of staff left, your friend raised this with the partner, who insisted that it was a matter of interpretation. Your friend asked how he should interpret "x is greater than y" so as to encompass a situation where y was greater than x. The other partner says that his assertion was actually that z (not x) is greater than y; that is not your friend's recollection, but in any case z is also less than y most of the time. Your friend therefore suggests that what was said is not true and that a clarification should be made to the member of staff. The other partner flatly refuses to do so, but says that if your friend wants to then he can - but he may not disclose what x or z are, as this is private information (which it of course is). Your friend has always tried to manage his firm in an ethical manner, and places great weight on his personal integrity. What should your friend do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 I'd say your friend should do as sees fit to. That possibly includes reminding the said partner that 10 years ago was just that - 10 years ago, so that X being greater than Y, or Z being less than Y, is entirely irrelevant anyway. However, your friend might also want to remind the said partner that good staff, presuming the member of staff is that, are hard to find these days, that recruitment is expensive in both time and money, and the training periods and adapting new employees into organisations has lots of hidden costs with it too and that these, ultimately, might mean that meeting the staff members requests would be cheaper. Alternatively, your friend could just define the integrity of the firm entirely by questioning why a fellow partner would see fit to lie, and that perhaps the said partner needed more scrutiny in general. Where there's smoke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stooH Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 I agree with the aforementioned gentleman's previous statement Very succinct. There's not enough ethics in business any more (or society in general) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazza_g Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 you lost me at entirely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted July 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 Thanks MrMe, I'm sure my friend will be very grateful As you say, no smoke without fire. This isn't the first time my friend has observed a detectable divergence from truthfulness… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted July 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2011 Update: another blatant lie spotted yesterday, apparently . Indeed, no smoke without fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted July 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Update: my friend just handed in his notice. He's now half hoping to be put on garden leave, as that will leave him free to concentrate on his season in the Caterham Academy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 You've made friends at the Caterham academy already? Hope your friend gets a new job soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4ttm4son Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 You've made friends at the Caterham academy already? Hope your friend gets a new job soon. I echo these comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted July 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 You've made friends at the Caterham academy already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stooH Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Good on your friend Was it a resignation driven out of principal or another job offer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted July 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Principle. No other offers at the moment, but the option of setting up a new practice beckons (if no offers turn up in the meantime). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stooH Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Buy your friend a beer from me I'd of loved to have quit my last job on principle but had just moved house, thankfully I knew someone with a business who'd been talking to me a few months earlier so a very quick chat later and I could get out. Did you, sorry they, let the company know the reasons for them leaving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted July 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Did you, sorry they, let the company know the reasons for them leaving? Oh yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Been there, done that. Not a friend in my case, but me personally. 12 years in a large corporate at a senior level and the last 5 as a director were very revealing. Month on month I'd unearth or be witness to all manner of bad ethics, discrimination (of all kinds, even down to the shoes someone wore) and appalling remuneration double standards of bonus taking when others were losing their jobs through no fault of their own. I left, took all my share options with me, sold the lot up as soon as they matured and have never looked back. Resigning/leaving on a point of principle can be a hugely enlightening process. Mind you, it is made even better if the share price when you leave is £3.94 and collapses to 8p within 2 years. I feel for all of those still there, some of whom I still speak to, but it's amazing how many say "I want to leave"....but never do anything about it. Well done to your friend. Have fun at Caterham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser647 Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Ace post! It is rare to find some-one with principles. Even rarer for said person to resign due to those principles. What did the friends business partner say once the resignation had been handed in? Top bloke - your friend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted July 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Kind words, both you The business partners were relatively speechless. I seriously think they never saw it coming, despite plenty of warning. Says it all, really. People skills? Who needs them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipex Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Good for you! I did a similar-ish thing that untimely ended up with me at the cab firm. I was regional manager for a very well known electrical wholesalers, if your an electrician, you undoubtedly will have an account with them, I'm still just about under my 10 year non disclosure/competition order thing though so I can't say who they are. But I got so hacked off with the orders coming from the top, and how he expected us to stitch up our customers, despite encouraging the 'mates' atmosphere between staff and customers, that I told him exactly what I thought of him, and what he could do with his company, which came as a bit of a shock to him, as I was his 'golden boy' who he'd seen rise through the ranks from van driver to area manager, about as high as you can get within the company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stooH Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 10 year competition clause?! Fook that's a long one, in the business i'm in where it's fairly easy to pinch customers as they like the service you personally provide them (rather than buying a tangible product) 6 months is the norm but I had 12 months in my contract because of my position in my last company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted July 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Good for you, Tipex. 2 years for me, enough time for the clients to get used to having someone else work for them. So I'll be starting from scratch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipex Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 To be honest, I wanted out anyway, I just didn't realise it. Sitting behind a desk all day was destroying me as a person, i'm so much happier now, even if I did trade wealth for poverty! Less us more as they say. The ten year clause is a long one, and to be honest, I doubt it'd stand up in court, in fact I know several of my branch managers who were on the same terms that have either set up in direct competition, or moved to the opposition, with no threats from the original company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNiceMrMe Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 For those of you mentioning contracts or compromise agreements that prevent you setting up in competition to former employers... It has been proven in court that they're unforceable beyond 6 months. The EU Law changed it all a few years back. It doesn't matter what it says in your documents, if you go to court you'll win if they try to say it can be for any longer than 6 months. It was all to do with competition law and, freedom of rights and something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 It has been proven in court that they're unforceable beyond 6 months. Minor modification to that - although it's pretty much true - if an employer can prove you only took a position to prepare for moving on then it's entirely feasible to enforce longer non-competition clauses, but they have to be reasonable. 1 year probable, 10 years - no chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Wishing your friend all the very best Looking forward to the first meet at caterham academy to cheer you on I wish I'd taken my old company to a tribunal just to prove a point and make them apologise if nothing else, seems it's quite rare nowadays to find "old skool" people with integrity & principles, we seem to be a dying breed ..... (and on here lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patently Posted August 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Wishing your friend all the very best Ta! Oh, err, I mean "I'll pass on your best wishes..." Looking forward to the first meet at caterham academy to cheer you on Paid the second deposit last week. Six weeks or so to go until the bits turn up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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