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chrisnee

Question about London Box Junction

14 posts in this topic

I was driving towards the west in A4 Strand in London a couple of days ago. The traffic light was green when I was approaching the junction of A4 Strand and A301 Lancaster Place, so I drive forward and waited before entering the yellow box junction. The distance between the box and the stop line is about 10 yards.

When the junction box became clear ahead the traffic light turned to red, but the traffic from my left and right did not start moving. As I already passed the white solid stop line for quite long distance, I move forward and passed the junction.

I am wondering if it is appropriate to move forward in this case, or I should have waited before the junction box until the light turns green.

I am quite worried because I don't know whether it will be a traffic light offence and cause fine and penalty points.

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Hi chrisnee, and welcome to TSN. I've just called up the junction in Google Maps - Lancaster Place, London - Google Maps.

If you're heading west along the A4, there is indeed a significant gap beyond the lights before you hit the box junction. I'm guessing you stopped in this area and didn't stop in the box.

In this sort of situation, I'd only move if I was obstructing traffic. From the overhead angle it looks as though it would be possible to wait there while still allowing traffic to cross the junction in front of you, so that's probably what I'd have done. Whether your action warrants a fine, I don't know. If I got a fine through the post I might contest it on the grounds that my car was exposed to cross-traffic and I felt the safest thing would be to get out of their way. Of course, the Highway Code would probably tell you something to the effect that you shouldn't enter a junction unless you are in a position to leave it again before the lights change, but I suspect if you tried that approach you'd never make any progress in London.

Are there actually any red light cameras at that junction?

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If the red light is not showing when the front of the vehicle crosses the line, but is illuminated before the rest of the vehicle has passed, an offence is committed. The rules state that it is your obligation as a driver to ensure that the whole of the vehicle can pass on green. If it cannot, you should not proceed.

You can enter and wait in a yellow box, the offense of stopping in a yellow box is only against the rules when you stop b/c of stationary traffic. You can roll along at a creep in a yellow box, which is what you should have tried to have done and you wont get done. To be convicted of the yellow box offense they would need to have provided video evidence that you never became stationary.

I havent been on here for a few weeks, there is so much illness going around at the moment and its the summer!

Edited by steelwind101

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If the red light is not showing when the front of the vehicle crosses the line, but is illuminated before the rest of the vehicle has passed, an offence is committed. The rules state that it is your obligation as a driver to ensure that the whole of the vehicle can pass on green. If it cannot, you should not proceed.

You can enter and wait in a yellow box, the offense of stopping in a yellow box is only against the rules when you stop b/c of stationary traffic.

I havent been on here for a few weeks, there is so much illness going around at the moment and its the summer!

Hi steelwind101 yes indeed the whole vehicle has well passed the stop line on green, actually it is about 10 yards as the yellow junction box is quite far from the stop line. My situation is that when I was waiting outside the junction box the light is still green, and it turned to red when the box was clear. I then move forward and cross the box.

I am worried if this is an offence.

Edited by chrisnee

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Hi chrisnee, and welcome to TSN. I've just called up the junction in Google Maps - Lancaster Place, London - Google Maps.

If you're heading west along the A4, there is indeed a significant gap beyond the lights before you hit the box junction. I'm guessing you stopped in this area and didn't stop in the box.

In this sort of situation, I'd only move if I was obstructing traffic. From the overhead angle it looks as though it would be possible to wait there while still allowing traffic to cross the junction in front of you, so that's probably what I'd have done. Whether your action warrants a fine, I don't know. If I got a fine through the post I might contest it on the grounds that my car was exposed to cross-traffic and I felt the safest thing would be to get out of their way. Of course, the Highway Code would probably tell you something to the effect that you shouldn't enter a junction unless you are in a position to leave it again before the lights change, but I suspect if you tried that approach you'd never make any progress in London.

Are there actually any red light cameras at that junction?

Thanks Teacake, yes I was heading west along A4, and the junction you showed in google map is the one. You can see the gap beyond the lights is quite big.

Someone told me this can be a red light offence, but the point is that the whole vehicle has well passed the stop line when it's green, and so if there were no junction box or the box were clear, I can certainly proceed no matter the light later turned to red or not.

But I stopped and waited just before entering the box and then red light on, I am not quite sure what I should do in this case.

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I would think you are going to be ok. It does not seem like a red light offense has been commited.

They would need to provide a photo from a camera showing that you crossed the line on red to get the "red light offense ticket" which obviously doesnt exsist given what you have said happened.

Edited by steelwind101

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I'm reasonably sure no offence was committed.

Yes, in a perfect world - as teacake says - you probably shouldn't cross the white line unless you can see the whole junction to be clear, but in practice that is rarely realistic in city traffic. And within the HIghway Code there is a big difference between shouldn't and musn't. Only musn't is enforceable.

Generally, if you are completely forward of the white line then I think you should make reasonable effort to cross the junction before opposing traffic gets a green light, but only if the way is clear and you are not risking collision. In the circumstances, you probably did the right thing.

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Hi chrisnee, and welcome to TSN. I've just called up the junction in Google Maps - Lancaster Place, London - Google Maps.

Are there actually any red light cameras at that junction?

Actually I am not sure about that, does anyone know if there are any red light cameras at this junction?

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This is the picture of that junction. As you can see in the left of the picture there are two cameras, the one in the middle faces the stop line (the stop line is beyond the scope of the picture) and the one on the top faces the junction box.

I was waiting just outside the junction box (and obviously well passed the stop line), when the box became clear the light turned to red but I still move forward to cross the junction.

That's what I am worried about, I am wondering if my behaviour will be caught by any of those cameras as an evidence of offence.

post-48386-137914472345_thumb.jpg

Edited by chrisnee

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Those cameras are not red traffic light offense cameras - they are cameras used to monitor the flow of traffic within London. AFAIK they are not used for traffic offenses other than those which are used to monitor bus lanes.

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Those cameras are not red traffic light offense cameras - they are cameras used to monitor the flow of traffic within London. AFAIK they are not used for traffic offenses other than those which are used to monitor bus lanes.

So there are no red light cameras in that junction?

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So there are no red light cameras in that junction?

There are no red light cameras in the photo you have posted. +++

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