gav00 Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Hi, Quick question... Which would be quicker out of an 05 A3 2.0 TFSI QUATTRO and a 58 2.0TDi 140 S-Tronic, both re-mapped using a bluefin? I'm looking at buying the TDi and am wondering what performance is likely to be? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAiLO Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 The TFSI will be quicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Man Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 The 2.0tfsi by a country mile...power always wins in the end...The tfsi engine has bags of low to mid range grunt as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 You've both answered the question without stating what the post-remap bhp and torque are of both cars. Diesel cars will outrun turbo petrol cars. Can't say whether the petrol will outrun the diesel. With the Bluefin, what are the numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAiLO Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 With the diesel you get just over 180bhp. 2.0TFSI engine will output nearly 240bhp. Can't see the turbodiesel outrunning the turbocharged petrol car here. From what I can remember there is over 2 second difference in 0-60 times between those two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipex Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 So what bhp is a 6 year old 2.0tfsi as standard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAiLO Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 It's 197 bhp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipex Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 Ok, so 197bhp, vs the TDi at 140bhp, both turbo engines, so both will respond well to tuning, but, that's not even close. Even if you remapped the TDi, and left the tfsi standard, the tfsi would still be quicker. If you were comparing the 170bhp VAG TDi engine, then it might put up more of a fight. In this instance, the torque figures don't really matter, as both being turbo, they both have good torque figures. The TDi is going to be down on power compared to the tfsi in every instance (remapped or not), and the tfsi doesn't have a heavy diesel lump to pull around. However, a remapped TDi will be 90% of the standard tfsi, but with vastly better mpg, so ultimately, it just depends what you want, power or mpg, and wether the fact the TDi is 3 years newer plays any part in your decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser647 Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 When you say 'quicker' do you mean 0-62 or in-gear? OR Faster/higher top end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Man Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 It`s not just the power and torque....don`t forget the handling...I owned a 2.0tfsi for 5yrs and tested the 2.0tdi....as well as having the deisel as loaner on a few occasions.....You really feel the weight of the deisel lump up front...In fact it`s the first thing you notice when throwing the car into a bend....especially if you`v just stepped out of a 2.0tfsi....I averaged 35mpg over 60k miles....so unless low co2 figuers and 40+mpg fuel consuption are a must...I`d take the tfsi everytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 With the diesel you get just over 180bhp. 2.0TFSI engine will output nearly 240bhp. Can't see the turbodiesel outrunning the turbocharged petrol car here. From what I can remember there is over 2 second difference in 0-60 times between those two. You're missing the classic point - torque (from which power is derived, when combined with the RPM). Like I said, what are the figures that the remapped versions put out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipex Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 Thing is Mook, if we were talking about the 170bhp TDi, then yes, the torque might make up the downfall in bhp, but it's the 140bhp TDi, so I think the difference in power is just to big to even be close, even if both remapped. I can't see the 140 TDi mapping to much over 170, and then as mentioned above, the tfsi will map to 240 odd, so again, imo, even without knowing the torque figures, i think the gulf is too wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 In real world driving, unless you drive like a **** bouncing off the red line, torque is more important than bhp. Even then it gets complicated. Higher tuned diesel engines - like the VAG 170bhp unit - tend to have narrower power bands than their less powerful siblings - like the 140bhp version of the same unit. To the extent that, with a manual gearbox, I wouldn't be surprised if a 140 kept up with a 170 most of the time. I would think this is also why the TFSI in this case would be quicker. It may well have less torque, but it has more top end and a wider power band, whereas if you start chipping the diesel engine to try and get close you end up with everything in one barely useable 500 rev chunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 Thing is Mook, if we were talking about the 170bhp TDi, then yes, the torque might make up the downfall in bhp, but it's the 140bhp TDi, so I think the difference in power is just to big to even be close, even if both remapped.I can't see the 140 TDi mapping to much over 170, and then as mentioned above, the tfsi will map to 240 odd, so again, imo, even without knowing the torque figures, i think the gulf is too wide. See my first post, mate - I'm not saying the diesel will be quicker than the petrol. My point is that people get obsessed with bhp figures and it's not the only thing to look at Garcon's comment re torque being more important than bhp is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 No idea about post remap, but my 2.0TFSI is faster off the mark (considerably) and in gear (not by much on this one) than a 2.0TDi. I have scientifically tested this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gav00 Posted September 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 The figures that superchips quoute for both maps are as follows... Audi A3 FSi Turbo (200PS) 2004 onwards Engine type : Turbocharged Petrol Engine size : 1984 cm3 Cylinders : 4 Original bhp : 197 Original nm : 280 BHP increase : 41 NM gain : 54 Lb/Ft gain : 40 and Audi A3 2.0 TDI CR (140PS) 2008 onwards Engine type : Turbo-Diesel Engine size : 1968 cm3 Cylinders : 4 Original bhp : 138 Original nm : 320 BHP increase : 33 NM gain : 61 Lb/Ft gain : 45 As you can see, there's a big difference in Torque and bhp in both engines!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 (edited) Bingo! TDI will go to 381Nm and the petrol will go to 334Nm. Turbo diesels produce more torque at fewer rpm, which is why the power is lower - BHP is calculated from torque and revs. - BHP = Torque x RPM / 5252 Edited September 7, 2011 by Mook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeDesmo Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Don't know which is quicker but the petrol will be sweeter to drive by a country mile... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 I still don't think the diesel would be quicker, but with the remapping they're much closer on power and torque to weight. Yes, the petrol would be a more rewarding drive on the twisties. Well tuned turbo diesels are cracking fun on track though :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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