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HR Advice on awkward employee


bells0
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Not sure how to tread with this.

We have an employee, who has worked for us for 23 years. He has always been tough to deal with, more so as his wife works in compliance.

He is paid weekly on hours worked. I cannot remember the last time he worked his contracted 38 hours. Always late by 5,10,15 minutes in the morning or after lunch.

Today he has handed in a holiday request. He is using up his last 3 days, which is fair enough.

BUT, he has also written down that he is taking a further 4 days 'unpaid'!!

We are really struggling at the moment [steel fabrication], and although he is isn't on the productive side, it is really pi**ing me off that he thinks he can do this.

Where do i stand? I am thinking of giving him a written warning, but knowing what his wife is like, don't want to get myself in trouble. Any ideas TSM'ers??

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If you have someone independent in HR/Personnel get their legal advice on disciplinary process. Get a documentary record of everything. It really depends what's in his contract - I would have thought it most likely he could request unpaid leave but not demand (or indeed expect) it.

It can be very difficult to build a solid case against someone for persistent minor infringements, but it is possible. You just need to be absolutely sure of your contractual and legal position - and as I say, get everything on record.

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Anyone can 'request' unpaid leave. It's another matter if it's approved/granted though.

Would your business 'miss' him so to speak?

Also, has anyone pulled him up on the persistent lateness? If not, then you won't really be able to say much or reference it.

If he has many meetings, you could always try to arrange his meetings to start right after lunch and see what happens?

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As Garcon says, where is his contract and what does it say?

The only mandatory consideration an employer must give for unpaid leave is in respect of dependants - not just because it suits someone. You can refuse it, point blank.

I disagree with Garcon about it being difficult to get rid of people for constant minor infringements - because the word constant means it stops becoming minor. For the constant time keeping you can get rid of someone quite easily through a disciplinary process of verbal warnings, written and final if they keep ignoring warnings - as long as you have them documented. I've done it before and it doesn't take much at all. If they're going to persistently offend, the law is on your side and all they look for is documentation.

Bear in mind you have the right to refuse holiday requests too if they're at a time that would be difficult for the company to manage.

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I don't work in H R but in the railway industry you can ask for unpaid leave but as others more knowledgeable have said,you are not guaranteed to get it. All depends if they can afford people wise to let you have it. So there must be some employment law saying this for employers.

Rick

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We do have written contracts of employment.

On the discipline side of things the procedure is 1) 1st written warning [effective for 6 months] 2) Final written warning, any more recurrence = 3) Dismissal

There is no mention of taking unpaid holidays.

Our foreman said when he handed in the request that this will be awkward, he responded saying he will be in a foreign country so tough.

Like i said, he isn't productive, and we can be without him. But his position is relied on by the productive people for getting on with their work quicker. Just think he is taking the mickey, and it could open us up for others not coming to work once they've used all their days??

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Unpaid holiday has to be requested and can be refused - as logn as you've not got a clause in his contract.

The one thing I've got to ask is why the hell he's not been pulled up for his lateness before? If it's not acceptable to the business, you knock it on the head immediately. If you've let it carry on for months, or by the sound of it years, then you've build a rod for your own back, because it's become accepted behaviour.

One of my best mates owns an HR consultancy and out-sourcing firm and I'm sure they'd be happy to help, although they will, of course, have to charge for it. Citizen's Advice would be your first stop, but you'll need to be quick.

W.r.t. his unpaid holiday request, tell him you'll sign off the paid request, but you'll need to get back to him re the unpaid request. Do NOT just leave it lying +++

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If you decline his request and he has booked a holiday and goes, he will be awol. Surely cause for a written warning?

Yep. His tough. We've all had requestes not granted for some reason. Just have to live with it and get on or choose alternatives.

If he then calls in sick, you will need to see a Doctors' Note (especially as it's for 4 days anyway).

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As others have said, put it in writing to him that his request for unpaid holiday is refused and that it is not the company responsibility if he has already booked a holiday.

Furthermore, say that it could be considered a matter warranting discliplinary action if he proceeds to take the time off that you have refused.

But - Mook gave you sound advice when he said to speak to a HR company. You can get retained HR services for £100 a month. £200 a month gets you retained services that includes legal protection in the event of court proceedings - and they offer that because most of these companies are VERY good and will look after you and make sure it never gets to that.

They will almost certainly invoke performance management from day one. In the case of this guy, if you rang a company tomorrow I can almost guarantee you they'd have him out of your employment within 6 months maximum - if that's what you want. Plus, if he did take the unpaid leave after a written letter telling him not to - that's very close to being gross misconduct and you could be shot of him in no time at all.

Don't be scared of him no matter what his wife does. This is your business and livelihood. You pay him to do a job and if he doesn't do it you shouldn't feel at all worried about pulling him for it.

I have one rule in HR - document everything. Even if you don't, start tomorrow. Don't delay. Back it up by letting committed staff know they're valued and let lazy staff know you'll get rid of them.

p.s. the reason you should pick him up on 5 minutes here, 10 minutes there, is simple - it sets precedent. If you let it go because he's a t-wat you can be assured you'll one day have what looks like a cut-and-shut case for dismissing someone but they'll throw up the different treatment of another member of staff, even if it is for entirely different reasons - then you're really in the crap because you're accused of discrimination.

Edited by MrMe
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We employ a HR services company, simply because it's an absolute fecking minefield, and a massive headache to deal with.

I can't tell you how much money they have saved us over the years, but it's a lot, most of our staff are unskilled, which means we get a lot of plebs, and as soon as you start to discipline those sorts of people they threaten you with all sorts of stuff, like unfair dismissal, discrimination, duty of care etc etc.

I'd never run a business that employs staff without one to be honest.

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Use this to your advantage, refuse his holiday request, and also his unpaid leave. Make sure the Foreman will make a statement about his 'tough, I'm abroad' comment. When he chucks a sickie, take disciplinary action, and if he kicks off, kick him out.

There are so many genuinely good people unemployed, you shouldn't have to tolerate persistant p1ss-taking like this.

Good luck +++

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Check your HR law Tipex +++

We employ the services of a HR consultant, because it's simply too complicated, and too easy to make mistakes that will bite you in the arse.

I suspect it's easier with skilled employees, and graduates, rather than the unskilled, low paid type of employees we attract, as they are the type that will take on a no win no fee solicitor for almost anything and everything.

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HR law says nothing about needing to give a verbal warning first. You can go straight to written, just as you can go straight to dismissal for gross misconduct.

It all depends on the seriousness of the offence. I'd say that in this case I would have given a verbal first, but I can't see any harm in going to written because of the consistent nature of his breaches. I'm no expert on it though, but I do know you don't have to give a verbal first (unless you have a staff handbook which says verbals will always be issued before writtens).

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