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AZURES3

Audi and Quattro will soon no longer be the default choice for 4WD

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About fecking time!! I dunno what percentage of Audi's have quattro but since loads of people seemed to be grabbing them due to the last few winters snow, I can only see sales moving towards the blue n white propeller!

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About fecking time!! I dunno what percentage of Audi's have quattro but since loads of people seemed to be grabbing them due to the last few winters snow, I can only see sales moving towards the blue n white propeller!

Agreed competition is healthy. I am a huge Audi fan but think this will be a big shock to Audi sales, BMW make the best engines by far IMHO in terms of performance, CO2 and refinement. The head office I work in has 2000 people and so many people moved from BMW to Audi just so they had Quattro after the winters being stuck and not wanting an SUV.

Its Ironic that until yesterday its been the mildest start to winter for years and the biggest year for winter tyres.

I think a 335i or 335D with 4WD would be amazing.

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Any ideas what the F:R drive ratio is on the X models?

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40:60 ratio which is perfect, believe Audi are doing this now for Torsen based systems too. Sorry to say but Quattro is under fire now and this is probably healthy.

BMW Technology Guide : xDrive

Edited by AZURES3

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BMW imported 4wd 3 and 5 series cars in the 1980`s/early 1990`s....I wonder why they stopped doing this?....although from memory I seem to recall the cars were not well received by the motoring press at the time....or maybe they were just too expensive....or possibly deemed un-neccesary and gimmicky by the press......I can`t put my finger on it right now but I can definitely remember reading critical reviews.....Personally I`v never understood why BMW UK has not imported the 4wd drive derivatives of it`s cars as BMW has been selling these cars in Europe and North America for 30+yrs

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40:60 ratio

So we've got the weird situation where Audi AWD is more rear biased than BMW !

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I'll stick to the Audis. I don't like the interiors on the BMWs. That is enough for me NOT to buy a car.

If Mercedes decide to do the same, I'd be looking at them and the Audi. Merc interiors are very nice!

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Audi are screwed now.

If BMW start selling cars to suit people who can't drive a proper car and want dull handling and think they need 4wd because it rains occasionally, Audi have nowhere to turn.

:bike:

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Have to say I’d be very interested in a 3 Series Estate 4WD in 3.0 diesel format. Been toying with a move to something different from the S3 due to family and looked at various manufacturers and models but i haven't scratched the BMW itch yet. Drove my fathers a few times and always enjoyed it and have a big pull towards it but something keeps me wanting the 4WD that Audi offer, amongst others. TBH I’ve never been stuck with FWD in snow, my father always moaned about his BMW when he had it - his area got succumb to the snow and my Mum couldn't do the snow chain stuff, maybe I’m swayed by 4WD at the mo as never had a problem getting to their house.

Its probably not going to be here in time though as my need is quite Imminent..!

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SiT - I thought I was gonna get a 3 series Touring for the family.... until I tried one and found the boot way too small! I ended up in another Audi.

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Scotty - Really - i need to test drive one. I need room for a dog too and sounds daft but not wanting something too large as the misses doesn't feel comfortable. Also considering A4 Avant

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BMW imported 4wd 3 and 5 series cars in the 1980`s/early 1990`s

I don't think they ever imported the 4wd 3 series, but I had a 5 series, 525iX touring, and it was an awesome car, no idea why they stopped, I think they only imported them for a year at the most, so pretty rare to see an iX model.

I'm not sure it'll be a huge hit to Audi, as the majority of Audi customers are buying into the brand and lifestyle image Audi have tried to associate with, and probably don't even know they have quattro, let alone what it does.

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I'm not sure it'll be a huge hit to Audi, as the majority of Audi customers are buying into the brand and lifestyle image Audi have tried to associate with, and probably don't even know they have quattro, let alone what it does.

Do you really believe that? Of the 100,000's of owners, you really think that the majority have bought into a brand rather than because the cars are a competitive product and hence a reasonable choice?

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Do you really believe that? Of the 100,000's of owners, you really think that the majority have bought into a brand rather than because the cars are a competitive product and hence a reasonable choice?

Whilst I might agree with you Scotty, I do beleive many punters buy due to the marketing image, product placement, lovely interiors and how far their (and company) money goes.

Afterall, these are 'normal' punters! :grin:

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Do you really believe that? Of the 100,000's of owners, you really think that the majority have bought into a brand rather than because the cars are a competitive product and hence a reasonable choice?

Yes I do believe it, simply because I don't believe Audi offer a competitive product in any single market sector.

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Whilst I might agree with you Scotty, I do beleive many punters buy due to the marketing image, product placement, lovely interiors and how far their (and company) money goes.

Afterall, these are 'normal' punters! :grin:

I wouldn't have queried that comment. It was the "majority" comment that seems off to me.

Yes I do believe it, simply because I don't believe Audi offer a competitive product in any single market sector.

It that case you should give massive credit to Audi for becoming a massive profitable company

in selling non-competitive products.

:roflmao:

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I don't think it's any secret that Audi's marketing department have done an utterly amazing job with the brand image, I'd never deny that!

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There are a number of different groups of people who buy Audis, of which two are most significant to us, here:

1. Motoring/car/driving enthusiasts who've probably grown out of hot hatches and the like, still want a nice car, need some practicality, and just happen to prefer Audi over BMW, Merc, Jag and other similar competition either generally or for this purchase. As the proportion of motoring enthusiasts among overall drivers is low, so this proportion of Audi buyers is low.

2. People who don't particularly care for driving or cars any more than any of their other material possessions but who judge themselves on their material possessions alone, who buy cars in exactly the same way as they buy clothes, gadgets, kitchens, watches and so on: purely as a status symbol to portray a certain image. Whatever it is, it must have the right label. These people will know absolutely nothing about their cars, except that they have the right label. Audi's marketing department have indeed done an amazing job at ensuring Audi joins that small list of "right" labels, and they've obviously told their friends in engineering that having achieved that "status" they don't need to waste effort and money on actually making their product competitive - perception and image is king.

I would estimate this second group accounts for 85-90% of Audi buyers, at least in part because it is a sad fact that 85-90% of the people in this country are obsessed with their own status and image.

Edited by garcon

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There are a number of different groups of people who buy Audis, of which two are most significant to us, here:

1. Motoring/car/driving enthusiasts who've probably grown out of hot hatches and the like, still want a nice car, need some practicality, and just happen to prefer Audi over BMW, Merc, Jag and other similar competition either generally or for this purchase. As the proportion of motoring enthusiasts among overall drivers is low, so this proportion of Audi buyers is low.

2. People who don't particularly care for driving or cars any more than any of their other material possessions but who judge themselves on their material possessions alone, who buy cars in exactly the same way as they buy clothes, gadgets, kitchens, watches and so on: purely as a status symbol to portray a certain image. Whatever it is, it must have the right label. These people will know absolutely nothing about their cars, except that they have the right label. Audi's marketing department have indeed done an amazing job at ensuring Audi joins that small list of "right" labels, and they've obviously told their friends in engineering that having achieved that "status" they don't need to waste effort and money on actually making their product competitive - perception and image is king.

I would estimate this second group accounts for 85-90% of Audi buyers, at least in part because it is a sad fact that 85-90% of the people in this country are obsessed with their own status and image.

Ditto for BMW, Merc etc etc etc.

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If we're not careful this could end up being a discussion about branding and whether a pair of Levi's is worth £50 etc etc etc ;)

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Ditto for BMW, Merc etc etc etc.

Almost, yes. At least as far as most of today's buyers are concerned.

Except that BMW and Mercedes also both have particular reputations borne out of years of heritage that the majority are conscious of - BMW as drivers' cars, Mercedes as the best luxury cars you can buy this side of Rolls-Royce/Bentley. In the UK market even Jaguar have the benefit of being British.

They all have an extra USP, whereas Audi only seem to have the 'badge'. And that, by its nature is as reliable as fashion. Not so long ago Audi were just another run of the mill ordinary manufacturer. If you asked potential buyers in the early 80s to rank cars by prestige, they'd be listed somewhere behind Opel. Of course, all makes have to be the new kid at some point, and Audi's recently found status is a bold achievement that may endure, but without something more tangible to fall back on it's difficult.

The ur-Quattro was obviously a huge step in Audi's progress, but to me it seems that legacy has faded over time. Yes, Audi are still involved at the highest levels of motorsport, but how many Audi drivers either know or care that Audis have won Le Mans several times over?

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.... and where in the original AutoExpress article does it say anything about BMW bringing 4WD versions out in the UK? The link details the M50D engine which it says will feature in the M550D and the X6 M50D.

There is no mention of any other 4WD versions such as 3 series etc.

Edited by scillyisles

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It says the M550d will be X drive (i.e. 4wd), but doesn't refer to any other models. And I'd be willing to bet the first bit is wrong - this is Auto Express after all.

However, it has been said for a while that BMW are intending to bring 4wd versions of their cars into the UK.

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Personally I don't think the other brands such as BMW or Mercedes are seen in quite the same way, Audi is currently the 'cool' brand for those types that need such products to detract from their otherwise mundane and boring lives, that's why you see so many Audi's with unused ski/bike racks on the roof, because they are buying into an image, that they perceive makes other people think they are 'cool' which probably couldn't be further from the truth.

Mercedes is seen as luxury, even though the C-class isn't exactly a great car, people just see the badge, and BMW still has the 'arrogant middle management ar5ehole on a mission' thing about it.

Of course those of us who are 'into' cars, see the brands in a completely different way.

On the subject of paying extra for 'premium' brands in general, jeans etc, value is entirely subjective to an individual, and what may be good value to one person, may not seem so to another.

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