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Audi and Quattro will soon no longer be the default choice for 4WD


AZURES3
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So people who aren't "'into' cars" only buy Audi for the "cool" brand? I thought all Audi drivers were now preceived as tossers so where's the coolness?

They don't buy coz the interior is considered by many to be better than a BMW's or a Mercs or just simply because it fits with there needs better?

A friend of my father, who's in no way into cars, compared them all against his list of requirements and opted for an A4. It met his needs. No consideration of "cool" etc. He's had BMW, Mercs before and exhibits no brand loyalty etc.I

think the perceptions on here are actually out of kilter with reality.

If you accept that the three German marques are of approx same quality then why do people have to be car fans or blinded by the brand to buy an Audi?

To be honest I'm bored of these continued generalisations which ever way they lean. It's tiresome :(

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If we're not careful this could end up being a discussion about branding and whether a pair of Levi's is worth £50 etc etc etc ;)

If made in the Far East, then Levis aren't worth the extra compared to other brands.......

And therein, lies the difference. Some people WILL pay for stuff that others see as not worth it.

Everyone will have their own reasons - some will be marketing. Some people buy cars because the journo says they are good.

Look at Fords of the 80's. They were sh1te, not one redeeming feature, yet still topped the sales charts.

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If you accept that the three German marques are of approx same quality then why do people have to be car fans or blinded by the brand to buy an Audi?

I don't though, Audi is in no way comparable to either BMW or Mercedes on quality or reliability, and have far more in common with Ford, Vauxhall, Honda, Nissan etc, it's just that Audi's marketing has been so successful that people now perceive them as a 'premium' brand when they absolutely aren't.

And before you ask, no I'm not going to detail why they aren't as I've done that enough times before.

To be honest I'm bored of these continued generalisations which ever way they lean. It's tiresome :(

Why get involved in discussions you find tiresome then?

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I don't think they ever imported the 4wd 3 series, but I had a 5 series, 525iX touring, and it was an awesome car, no idea why they stopped, I think they only imported them for a year at the most, so pretty rare to see an iX model.

I'm not sure it'll be a huge hit to Audi, as the majority of Audi customers are buying into the brand and lifestyle image Audi have tried to associate with, and probably don't even know they have quattro, let alone what it does.

You may well be correct.....I can recall reading an article in one of the motoring mags where they tested a rwd(3/5series) against the 4wd version....As far as I can remember the Journalists loved the car...but with the proviso of....is it really worth £???? more than the rwd model.....no doubt the handling/feel of the rwd car was eulogised by the press....and the real world practicality of 4wd ignored.

On reflection I think the real issue was the cost....For one reason or another UK customers were not prepared to pay a premium for a 4wd saloon in 1990

Audi....yes and no....Most punters buy into some form of brand image...be it cars or jeans.....and as has already been mentioned you have to give some credit to Audi`s marketing department.....However Audi today is what it is because of a one lucky break....and one business decision made 13 or 14yrs ago....The lucky break being the success of the original Mk1 TT....The TT totally changed the perception of the company.....The business decision, being the introduction of the "premium Hatch-back"...ie the first A3.....The original A3 was like no other hatch at the time....it weird to think about it now but it really did give other manufacturers a kick up the bum....Suddenly soft plastics and a decent interior were not seen as the preserve of luxurious saloons.... for a relatively small premium Mr and Mrs average could have a posh interior to impress the neighbours.....and that perception of rock solid and luxurious interiors has stuck with a large % of the motoring public.

Edited by Mr Man
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Coz they start off as other discussions but too often they then get pulled in the same tedious direction every time.

True, I find it somewhat amusing however, that even when I'm being complimentary about Audi, as I was in my first few posts in this thread, the Audi fanboys still manage to make it into an argument somehow!

Which just kinda backs up my own personal feelings on the type of people who buy Audi's.

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Nothing like a sweeping generalisation hey? Anyone who buys an Audi knows nothing about cars and is therefore a brand conscious idiot?

Wow, if only companies found it so easy to be so damm successful while still producing a crap product?

I don't though, Audi is in no way comparable to either BMW or Mercedes on quality or reliability, and have far more in common with Ford, Vauxhall, Honda, Nissan etc, it's just that Audi's marketing has been so successful that people now perceive them as a 'premium' brand when they absolutely aren't.

The Audi hate on here is borderline comical. Up there with Vauxhall and Ford...Oh really...? While I doubt very much I'll be buying a new Audi right now, they will be in the running - whereas you wouldn't catch me looking at Ford or Vauxhall. I guess I must know nothing about cars, or cars I like and enjoy to drive? I can't tell the difference between branding and product?

Audi are a quality manufacturer - they make quality cars that people like, and therefore buy. I'm not sure why that's so difficult to understand. If they made poor product then their figures would be hit.

I'm not sure Audi could do anything right at the minute anyway, as far as a lot of people are concerned. Yet, 'right' is defined by their bottom line - and let's face it they're hardly struggling :P

Edited by Mac
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Coz they start off as other discussions but too often they then get pulled in the same tedious direction every time.

Yes.

To be fair you can apply it to any successful company, you get the same people saying the same old tired things. Company X is rubbish! It's all smoke & mirrors! People are idiots to buy such things! Just look at Apple, Microsoft, Oracle etc. It's the same old tripe applied to a different market sector that's all. Success breeds contempt and all that :P

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I obtained my first Audi not because of the way it drove, but based on the level of kit and performance I could get for a fixed £500 a month company car allowance.

For that I could have a 1.8T GmbH Sport Avant (Pre S Line) with leather and a CD player which did 0-60 in 8 seconds and had 190bhp! Brilliant.

I did look at BMW's, but for the same money I could only have had a cloth interior 320 SE....

I think that's still an important factor that people often forget, BMW's are more expensive and therefore Audi is perceived as having more value for money, particularly on paper.

Things have moved on, but I still chose yet another Audi last year and price / equipment played a major part in the decision process. Also, I do actually need all wheel drive in winter (although not this year, yet).

Anyway, this is all getting a little off topic. Given the BMW 3 series will be expensive before you tack on another grand and a bit for the X drive system, and that a lot (most?) new BMWs are company cars with limited budgets, I don't think Audi will be too worried about losing too much market share - maybe in the 6 series and All Road markets I guess.

Finally, we had a 530xiT in the US for the winter of 2006. Brilliant car, but way too expensive for us to buy ourselves at the time.

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True, I find it somewhat amusing however, that even when I'm being complimentary about Audi, as I was in my first few posts in this thread, the Audi fanboys still manage to make it into an argument somehow!

Which just kinda backs up my own personal feelings on the type of people who buy Audi's.

Am I classed as being one of the Audi fanboys?

Re-read the thread. It was all on the straight and narrow until you started with your generalisations about Audi owners....again.

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Nothing like a sweeping generalisation hey? Anyone who buys an Audi knows nothing about cars and is therefore a brand conscious idiot?

What a load of utter bollox, where did I say "anyone" who buys an Audi? Where did I say you have to know nothing about Audi's to like them?

As usual, your not reading things properly, jumping to your own conclusions and making incorrect assumptions.

I do understand why people like some Audi's, I fully understand the lust the RS, and to a lesser extent, the S models generate, my opinion of 'the type of people who buy Audi's' isn't exclusive of people who buy them for other reasons, it's simply my opinion that most of their customers buy them for the reasons I stated above.

I also find it amusing when people defend a brand, and then add, "I still wouldn't buy one" at the end, it's very telling.

As an aside, I'd like someone to explain exactly what makes an average Audi 'premium' and to be considered alongside BMW/Merc? I'm genuinely at a loss, because it isn't the running gear, engine, suspension etc, that's all standard VAG gear you can find in a VW or Skoda, and while the interiors look nice, it isn't them either, because they peel and flake, wear quickly and are far from the quality you'll find in a BMW, so that can only really leave unquantifiable things like image.

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I think the reason people can get uptight on here about this subject is that they feel, wrongly in my opinion, that they are the target of the generalisations.

Anyone who is into cars enough to be a regular on this forum falls into the miniscule minority that is the car enthusiast. We all have our reasons for liking some marques and disliking others, but one thing that unites us is a certain degree of knowledge about the product.

It's the ignorant masses who get swept along by the marketing campaigns and buy into all the bollocks about image and a lifestyle. They're the ones buying the badge, not us.

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I think the reason people can get uptight on here about this subject is that they feel, wrongly in my opinion, that they are the target of the generalisations.

Anyone who is into cars enough to be a regular on this forum falls into the miniscule minority that is the car enthusiast. We all have our reasons for liking some marques and disliking others, but one thing that unites us is a certain degree of knowledge about the product.

It's the ignorant masses who get swept along by the marketing campaigns and buy into all the bollocks about image and a lifestyle. They're the ones buying the badge, not us.

Fair point. however every car is marketed with such bullsh1t you mention, and there are peeeps who only buy a certain brand. accross all marques, irrespective of brand snobbery etc

Of course there are people who buy Mercs Beemers and the like, purely for the snob factor, but the people who are brand haters, IMO fall into the same category as brand lovers, they have a distinctly week posistion to crticise individual marques. as there views can only be considered as being biased from the outset. before even parking there backside in a certain car and putting forward an opinion. bit like politics. ingrained opinions, supersede considered rational judgement and critique.

By the way, had an evoque for this WE, god knows what the fuss is about, unless you drive off road, which 99.9% never do, I think this car has a huge "Snon Nob" rating as it really is nothing more than a jacked up mondeo, with less space inside and two less doors, the price is just plain stupid,and I think it looks like bloody awful from the side and rear, with only the front end looking the nuts.

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If we're talking about hate, what I hate most of all is the development by marketeers - selling to a willing public - of the car as a pure status symbol with a brand image.

That created a blinkered aspiration amongst the majority of car buyers that they "must" have one of a few brands that met their snob test. As a direct result of that, the other brands stopped making their high end cars because nobody wanted them.

In the early 90s, we car enthusiasts had a world of choice of genuinely good performance and luxury cars, including models from Ford and Vauxhall. As the marketeers and the snob test took over, Joe Public started buying poverty spec BMWs and Audis instead of top spec Fords and Vauxhalls. Fast forward to now, and the choice no longer exists. As far as Joe Public is concerned, if his car isn't monochrome and German he's a failure.

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Coz they start off as other discussions but too often they then get pulled in the same tedious direction every time.

Agreed and it is always the same posters who start it - almost as if they have a pathological hatred of Audi.

Good cars come from many different manufacturers and those who are blinkered by either brand hatred or brand following show how small minded they are.

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Please ignore my last post or two, I made the mistake of typing them mere moments after I came within a gnats whisker of murdering a pensioner.

Therefore, whilst I generally stand by my opinions, I think I could have put the across better.

With regard to one of Ashleys comments, the problem a lot of people make when they assume I'm ignorantly 'bashing' Audi, is that I'm not ignorant, I've owned Audi's, we have Audi's on fleet, I speak from my own personal experience, not that of hearsay or rumour, or jumping on any bandwagon.

That's why perhaps sometimes my opinions differ greatly from others (thats not to say everyone else's opinion is based on hearsay etc), but the one thing I can promise all of you, is that my opinions are genuinely built on experience, I won't bullshit anyone, I'm straight talking and honest, and I guess that shows in my general dislike of Audi's current range, and my frustrations at not being able to convince everyone else that I'm right, which of course I am in my own mind, as I'm basing my opinion, as I said, on my own experience.

I apologise if people take offence at my 'Audi bashing'. As has been mentioned, people can get very emotive about something that they have chosen, and that they like, and I agree, it can be tiresome at times, but I can honestly say, that as and when Audi release something I like (I do like the TTRS btw), I'll tell you I like it, and will probably be just as defensive about it as I appear to be attacking the rest of the range.

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Oh, and on a point of order:

Standard rule of cool. It's the very fact they think they're cool that makes them tossers. :P

Surely you must be referring to convertible drivers and the plethora of Chlesea tractor owners, who drive around just for the sake of it, whenever a snow flake descends from the sky/

In regards to driving an Audi, it has now become cool, because everyone looks at you. like your a cross between "Fred Goodwin" & the "Anti Christ" (some say they are the same people, they may be on to something)

So on the basis of that old adage "It is better to be hated than ignored"

All Audis are 273 Degrees Kelvin "Cool"

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So who are these people driven by brand hated then?

Cos Tipex has clearly stated he doesn't hate Audi, and neither do I. I just hate the majority of people who buy them, as explained above.

And also as explained above, I do not include any regulars on this forum in that "majority".

I was not referring to anyone specific, merely alluding to the fact, that a lot of car purchasers are totally brand loyal, and also brand indifferent, the two if you think about, go hand in hand, we all know people who would never buy brand X, for no apparent reason, I would therefore classify them into the brand haters/ dislikers etc

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There were other comments about brand haters too.

I do take your general point. Blindly hating a brand is as ridiculous as blindly loving it.

I am as loyal to Subaru, if not more so, as many Audi owners on here are loyal to Audi. But with that loyalty comes intimate knowledge and acceptance of their strengths and weaknesses.

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I guess that shows in my general dislike of Audi's current range

Totally agree with you on that T, no flare and and a huge smattering of blandness currently pervades at AG, what happened to the special cars of old, like the RS2 and the rest, however that has to be tempered wit all the environmental stuff going on, dual fuel. electric etc, anyone heard of this new additive system "Aqua blue" or such like its called at Audi, where a system is installed at the factory to take a special additive, to reduce engines pollution or such like levels?

I mean look what Ford are doing currently. I think they are smashing it, commercially. these days, loads of modern design externally & internally and leading edge and innovative technology

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There were other comments about brand haters too.

I do take your general point. Blindly hating a brand is as ridiculous as blindly loving it.

I am as loyal to Subaru, if not more so, as many Audi owners on here are loyal to Audi. But with that loyalty comes intimate knowledge and acceptance of their strengths and weaknesses.

Lol....loyal is somewhat of an understatement;)....That said, 10yrs ago I spent 4wks touring Chile and Argentina in a Subaru Forrester....we spent a fair amount of time on dirt/volcanic tracks in the back and beyond....The car never missed a beat and and had loads of space for 3 adults and all our kit.....and I have to say the off road ride quality was excellent......I like Audi`s but I think any Quattro model with a sports suspension would have shaken itself to bits on some of the tracks we took.....But I really should`t have been surprised because after an old Landi, Subaru Estates are the farmers favourite mode of transport.

Edited by Mr Man
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