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Kell

A6 3.0TDI versus 3.0TFSI

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Talking Second-hand cars here, but does anyone have any real-world experience of running costs/problems/benefits of the two models above?

I'm a bit of an Audiphile, but due to various circumstances went for a 530d last time. It's been the singular worst motoring decision I've ever made and I will not be returning to the BMW fold.

We almost went for a 3.0TDI A6 last time, but just couldn't afford to do it. Also looked long and hard at a 4.2V8, but I was worried about fuel costs. Which is why I'm interested in the 3.0TFSI. According to the manufacturer's figures, the petrol 3.0 loses out to the diesel by only around 4mpg. Given that the petrol cars are cheaper and that petrol costs less, if the figures are to be believed, then it may work out costing roughly the same.

So, any comments about the realative merits and/or pitfalls of both models would be very welcome.

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I'm a bit of an Audiphile

Must. Resist. Temptation.

How many miles do you average in a year?

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We average the average. On average. ;)

Roughly 12-15k. It seems most people reckon the break even point on diesels to be about 15k, so we're close.

Also, we test-drove the 3.0TDI (222PS) back to back with the old 3.2V6 and despite having more power, the NA V6 felt like someone had left the handbrake on. With a lot more power, and similar levels of torque to the diesel, I had hoped the new petrol variant might feel like it's got more guts.

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You are right on the cusp there, assuming the figures are to be believed, then just test drive both and take the one you prefer.

Hopefully some people with real world experience will be able to say how achievable the official MPG figures are, I'm sure someone will be along soon!

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I wouldn't trust VAG consumption figures for T-FSI engines, at least not if my TSI lump is anything to go by.

Using cruise set at 80mph on motorways, and not even coming close to making use of the available performance, my average tank is around 35mpg - which is more than 10mpg adrift of what I should be expecting.

Knocking cruise back to 75mph sees a couple of extra mpg - but it feels like I'm walking at that speed...

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Driving at 80mph alone can use 20% more fuel than travelling at 70, surprising I know but true.

I'm doing fairly well with my A6 to get close ish to the manufacturers figures but I think that is more to do with the journey each day than anything else.

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Out of interest, what is it about the 530d you don't like? That may even help inform a decision on petrol vs diesel this time.

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I've just had so many problems with it that I've lost all faith in it.

Rear suspension compressor failure three times - needing a low loader each time to get home. The entire rear wiring loom going out of action. Three blowouts - more than I've had in 18 years combined. New front screens, new rear screens. New software as the entire I-drive system froze. The list seems endless. In fairness, many of the faults would/could have happened even if we'd gone for an A6, but combined With the model specific faults, it's all added up to a terrible ownership experience.

We went for the Beemer because it was about 2k cheaper than the then cheapest A6 3.0 TDI and because it had three years of a five year servicing pack left. We figured on three years of 'free' motoring. Couldn't have been further from the truth.

Essentially every known problem with the E61, we've had. The only one we haven't had is the leaking Panoramic Sunroof. And that's only because we don't have the sunroof.

When the car works, it's great to drive, but it really has let us down too many times.

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What year 3.0 TDI are you looking at?

The brand new, A6 3.0TDI my father is running with the 7 speed auto box and Quattro is returning 44mpg on a longer run. Superb mpg.

My 10 plate A6 3.0TDI 6 speed auto Quattro Avant did 33mpg.... Even when being REALLY careful.

My brothers S5 (auto), which is the 3.0 supercharged TFSI petrol engine does sub 30mpg, and given that he doesn't go above 70.... Ever. quite poor.

All figures taken from the DIS.

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Interesting comments about the BMW, are you sure it hadn't been involved in an accident before you purchased it?

3 blowouts is highly unusual, especially given only 15k a year, sounds like the rear subframe is out of alignment, putting extra stress in the tyres.

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I have to say that I've often thought it might have been in an accident. We did get a full HPI check, which came back negative, and asked the question outright of the dealership - who said 'no', but unless you know the car and owner, I guess you can never be certain.

That said, one of the blowouts was after I hit an enormous pothole on the way to the airport. Wrecked the tyre and wheel. So that wasn't anything to do with the car.

As for which model, it's unlikely to be the new shape as they're still too expensive for us. Probably a three year old car with sub 30k.

We currently get around 30 with the Beemer so I wouldn't be unhappy with another car that gave that sort of figure. I want Quattro and probably auto so that penalises mpg, plus going for a 3.0 car - even if it is diesel - is hardly a move you make to be fuel efficient, so if it delivered 30+ then I'd be OK with that.

I guess that forms part of my original question. Audi figures were about 33mpg for the diesel and 29mpg for the petrol. Just wanted to know if these were anywhere close.

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You will see 37-40 on a run in the diesel and around 27-28 round town. You won't get 30 average in the petrol.

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I don't average 30 in a quattro 2.0TFSI, never mind a twin turbo 3.0TFSI. Admittedly most of my miles are around the doors but I've averaged 26 over almost 5 and a half years and I drive like a girl most of the time.

On a recent 85 mile run to Centerparcs with a fully loaded car, all the bikes on the roof, very stong winds and an average speed of mach 2.1, I averaged under 19 mpg which was very impressive, I thought.

Audi's (indeed all manufacturer's) claimed mpg figures are a load of guff. I'm still considering the 3.0TFSI S4 and have bargained on sub 20 mpg on average, probably nearer 18.

On a side note our company have recently taken Vauxhall to task over it's claimed mpg figures. They signed up to using Vauxhall as our preferred supplier for company cars on the strength of their impressive mpg figures. It turns out we are spending more than ever on fuel and their figures are (surprise surprise), wildly optimistic.

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This is all good stuff to know.

How does servicing differ between the two? Intervals/costs?

PS - I thought I'd read the petrol was supercharged.

Edited by Kell

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Drop lupo babe a pm / email she has been running a s4 and im sure i read had just brough a runaround because of the running costs. Thats a 3l petrol, bit more power but she could give you an idea.

My old tt 3.2 is just managing 31mpg. But obviously that old tech now.

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I`d echo the comments already made about Audi`s T-fsi engines/mpg....You wont get anywhere near the quoted figures however hard you try.....I`d check out Audi forums as they are littered with threads about fuel consumption......On the plus side the engines themselves are crackers....be it a 1.4t-fsi or the full fat 3.0t-fsi.....I can`t speak from personal experience of Audi`s 3.0tdi units but after reading up on the subject last year the 3.0d units seem to be able to achieve decent mpg irrespective of whether you treat them with kid gloves or thrash them.....Slightly off-topic but why do Audi fit a de-tuned 222bhp 3.0tdi to the A6 when the A5 gets a 245bhp version of presumably the same engine?

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The 3.0 Tdi from the previous gen is a cracker. My mate's one was the 233 PS version and went OK. He's now 'chipped' it and it's a torque monster. He was follwoing a XF (5 litre job) and it would not get away from him (on the private test track) no matter how hard the Jag driver booted it!

In my hands, I could probably get just over 40 mpg from it. It's a quattro and an auto. You can get manual quattros but they are rare as feck. So you'd be stuck on the spec.

Mr Man - I think the version in the A6 probably produces more torque, so less power?

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Slightly off-topic but why do Audi fit a de-tuned 222bhp 3.0tdi to the A6 when the A5 gets a 245bhp version of presumably the same engine?

Probably just for image. They don't want buyers of the sleek coupe being shown up by those in an 'estate car'. Same reason they don't fit better engines in the Coxster - as it would beat the 911 round the Nurburgring (according to internet 'fact').

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The 3.0 Tdi from the previous gen is a cracker. My mate's one was the 233 PS version and went OK. He's now 'chipped' it and it's a torque monster. He was follwoing a XF (5 litre job) and it would not get away from him (on the private test track) no matter how hard the Jag driver booted it!

In my hands, I could probably get just over 40 mpg from it. It's a quattro and an auto. You can get manual quattros but they are rare as feck. So you'd be stuck on the spec.

Mr Man - I think the version in the A6 probably produces more torque, so less power?

In our 2008 3.0TDi a6 avant quattro that has been remapped by Shark, last year we did 3000 miles in it - Leeds / Dover / San Tropez / Nice / Tuscany / Milan / Paris / Home in 2 weeks - 4 up with all our clobber for that time, plus wedding gear and we weren't hanging about (at all). Calculated consumption for the trip was 39.7mpg.

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Probably just for image. They don't want buyers of the sleek coupe being shown up by those in an 'estate car'. Same reason they don't fit better engines in the Coxster - as it would beat the 911 round the Nurburgring (according to internet 'fact').

You can chose 204 or 245PS in the current line up, same as in the A5. In the old one it was 233PS presumably they were waiting for the new chasis for the uprated engine figures.

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In our 2008 3.0TDi a6 avant quattro that has been remapped by Shark, last year we did 3000 miles in it - Leeds / Dover / San Tropez / Nice / Tuscany / Milan / Paris / Home in 2 weeks - 4 up with all our clobber for that time, plus wedding gear and we weren't hanging about (at all). Calculated consumption for the trip was 39.7mpg.

We did about half that length skiing last year. High Wycombe to Alpe D'huez and back. 1,400 miles in all. Three up, but with a roof box. Beemer averaged about 32 mpg.

26536_381516351020_624151020_4324400_3784642_n.jpg

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Slightly off-topic but why do Audi fit a de-tuned 222bhp 3.0tdi to the A6 when the A5 gets a 245bhp version of presumably the same engine?

I think you have to compare Apples to Apples. Both the current A6 and A5 are offered with the same 245PS 3.0TDI engine. They are also offered with a detuned 204PS version for front wheel drive only. The previous version of the A6 and A5 carried a 233PS engine, although I cannot remember if that was ever offered as a detuned offering with FWD only.

+++

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