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(Glasgow) Rangers and Portsmouth going into administration


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#1 Andy_Bangle

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 05:20 PM

The ‘Gers news has just been broken at STV, and could now be facing a deduction of 10 points. The club have lodged an intention to go into administration with the Court of Session. They now have five days in which to formally declare administrators have taken over the running of the club.

The Ibrox outfit are now awaiting the result of a £49m tax case with HM Revenue and Customs in relation to the club’s use of the Employee Benefits Trust to pay players and staff.
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#2 Andy_Bangle

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 05:26 PM

They'll be hitting the Buckfast tonight as things aren't so good at Celtic either: BBC Sport - Celtic don't need Rangers, says Peter Lawwell

More news on Pompey when someone can be arsed to post it.
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#3 Cuprabob

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 07:19 PM

Sadly this has been on the cards from the day Craig Whyte took over the club. He has a history of this. Although I'm a Rangers fan I think Celtic are being naive as they will just win the league every year. Even 3rd place Hearts are looking as though they might follow Rangers into liquidation
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#4 Twinspark

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 09:47 PM

I wonder if this will force the hand of Celtic, with them seriously looking at a deal to join the Premier League?

What I don't understand about it all is that both clubs have large stadiums, they have a loyal following, and could mostly sell more tickets than they have seats.

They also have followers all over the world, and an income stream from memorabilia / replica kits.

So how the hell have Rangers got themselves into such deep shite?

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#5 Cuprabob

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 11:08 PM

I wonder if this will force the hand of Celtic, with them seriously looking at a deal to join the Premier League?

What I don't understand about it all is that both clubs have large stadiums, they have a loyal following, and could mostly sell more tickets than they have seats.

They also have followers all over the world, and an income stream from memorabilia / replica kits.

So how the hell have Rangers got themselves into such deep shite?


Like so many other clubs the players wages were over the top especially under Dick Advocaat, all the TV revenues collapsed plus Rangers built a world class training facility, Murray Park. Also not progressing in Europe has also had a serious impact on revenue not to mention the £49m tax bill looming.

If Craig Whyte puts it into administration he becomes the first creditor, if it's HMRC then they become first. I would assume he's trying to play Russian Roulette with HMRC

Edited by Cuprabob, 13 February 2012 - 11:13 PM.

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#6 TP27

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 10:51 AM

Like so many other clubs the players wages were over the top especially under Dick Advocaat, all the TV revenues collapsed plus Rangers built a world class training facility, Murray Park. Also not progressing in Europe has also had a serious impact on revenue not to mention the £49m tax bill looming.


The principle issue for Rangers is that their Funding has historically been provided by Bank of Scotland, now Lloyds Banking Group. This Funder is effectively burst and predominantly owned by the the UK Government. As you will all be well aware, if you have a Business Debt today with Lloyds Banking Group, you are totally and utterly fecked !! They want their money back, you, the business have to pay it back unless you can arrange a new facility with a third party (to take on that debt) and as such, the entire day to day cashflow of the business implodes. This is where Rangers F.C. are at !

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#7 Cuprabob

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 12:07 PM

The principle issue for Rangers is that their Funding has historically been provided by Bank of Scotland, now Lloyds Banking Group. This Funder is effectively burst and predominantly owned by the the UK Government. As you will all be well aware, if you have a Business Debt today with Lloyds Banking Group, you are totally and utterly fecked !! They want their money back, you, the business have to pay it back unless you can arrange a new facility with a third party (to take on that debt) and as such, the entire day to day cashflow of the business implodes. This is where Rangers F.C. are at !


I agree with you on the bank and the debt but I think the looming £49m (some say £75m) tax bill has expedited the demise.
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#8 TP27

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 12:36 PM

I agree with you on the bank and the debt but I think the looming £49m (some say £75m) tax bill has expedited the demise.


Which beggars the Question, why did Craig Whyte take on the "risk" of that liability, assuming that the HMRC 'issue' was disclosed to him and his acquisition team in full ?? :eek:

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#9 Cuprabob

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 12:41 PM

Which beggars the Question, why did Craig Whyte take on the "risk" of that liability, assuming that the HMRC 'issue' was disclosed to him and his acquisition team in full ?? :eek:


That's why no one else would buy the club therefore I can only deduce he has planned this route of action from day 1 to get rid of the debt and start again. If the BBC is to believed, and I don't see why they shouldn't, he has a history of doing this.

I think there are quite a few clubs watching this story with interest and we may see a few more taking this route to get rid of the debt. As Pat Nevin said "morally wrong as a football team but makes good business sense"
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#10 TP27

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 12:51 PM

I think there are quite a few clubs watching this story with interest and we may see a few more taking this route to get rid of the debt. As Pat Nevin said "morally wrong as a football team but makes good business sense"


Classic - I can sense that many Rangers supporters 'might' be heavily reliant on the UK Government for both employment and possibly even Tax Credits and associated Benefits - their Club owe HMRC nearly £50M, to enable them to keep the nation and it's citizens afloat. And, the very same supporters will see the pursuit of the Club by HMRC as the work of Satan !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#11 stooH

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 02:43 PM

Pompey getting screwed over a barrel yet again. Apparently we're not making a massive loss at all but our cash flow was completely screwed by Antonov getting arrested and CSI going into administration. We'll get the 10 point deduction but I can't work out who that punishment is being aimed at, the guys that bought the club (Antonov et al) have ridden into the sunset and we've reverted to our previous owner basically through CSI not paying them, the team gets fecked to the tune of 10 points (minimum) and the only people punished are the fans, and it makes it harder to find an owner.

The biggest problem is Balram fecking Chainrai who's got a £17m debenture on the club, no matter how many times we go through administration he can claim to be owed the full amount. The problem is the clubs not worth that much anymore and no-one in their right mind will pay him it. He has to accept he's in negative equity and flog the debenture at a knock down price <£10m until he does that and Gaydamak (owner 4 or 5 times ago) agrees to sell the land around the club we'll just be constantly screwed.

I'm buying a stack of Euromillions tickets this week in the hope I win the big one and can just buy every fecker out who's r@ped our club dry.

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#12 CarMad

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:47 AM

Unless you are a top end club getting lots of money from television revenue and or a big owner with bottomless pockets all top teams are struggling at the moment.

Its not HMRC that are making Rangers fail its the market and the demands of the players. Rangers are getting £30ish million in revenue but costs per season are closer to £50m so straight away you have to pump lots of money into the club each year to keep it afloat. It seems the only way they have been able to stay afloat is to not pay their tax bill each year, the £49m is what they have owed for a long time but it now appears that there is another £9m to go on top of that for this seasons tax bill.

As for Pompey or any other club for that matter if they go into administration and get rid of their debts there has to be a punishment otherwise all clubs will do it. Some leagues have an automatic demotion and not just penalty points for going belly up and it should be like that, as ever the shareholders in the business/club have a higher priority than the fans/customers do. Otherwise a club spends a fortune to help get promotion, gets it then just doesn't pay the bills and and then reaps the rewards.

Lets face it this is just a phoenix company being created each time, its not good in business when this happens why should football be any different.

#13 Twinspark

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 05:31 PM

You can blame the likes of Abramovic and Mansour for the current mess football is getting into in the UK.

When a club is willing to pay £200k+ / week wages, just to stop the opposition getting a player, you know the system is ****ed - especially when so-called 'big clubs' are paying out more in wages alone than they're bringing in - it's complete insanity.

If a club isn't legitimately being run at a profit (ie. without big cash bungs from rich benefactors), then they should be booted down to League 2 and made to work their way back up.

There are many decent clubs out there who have been prudent with their finances - but they're under increasing pressure as they can no longer afford to compete with the likes of City and Chelsea when it comes to transfer fees and wages.

United, Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool, Everton - all examples of clubs living within their means and making a success(ish) of it.

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#14 Maxyboy

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 08:39 PM

Spurs living within their means?
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#15 Milo

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 08:43 PM

United, Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool, Everton - all examples of clubs living within their means and making a success(ish) of it.


Just remind us, how much debt do Man U have? And when is it scheduled to be fully repaid?

#16 Luke

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:08 PM

Spurs living within their means?

Spurs made a profit last year. About £400,000.
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#17 Twinspark

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:11 PM

Ahhh, the old chestnut of those who want to defend billionaire playground football.... the United takeover should never have been allowed to happen, as it loaded a load of debt onto the club for the personal gain of a family of not very rich Americans.

However, the club is RUN AT AN OPERATING PROFIT and has been for many, many years.

The important bit is in capitals - it is being run as a business which HAS to generate profits on an annual basis.
(the business is also worth circa 3 times the debt / mortgage against it)

At the last count, Spurs owed £64m, but had £119m income and only £67m wage bill.

For all those gloating Chelsea and City fans - you may have the money from your sugar daddy right now - but if and when they get bored and find something else to play with, you have a squad worth a lot less than you paid for it and a wage bill that exceeds your income. No matter what spin you put on it, that is no way to run any business - even a football club.

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#18 Milo

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:41 PM

Who is defending 'billionaire playground football'?
Man U need to make an operating profit to service their massive debts. That's like me saying I am well off because I earn £500k pa net of tax. Only I need £450k of it to pay my interest only mortgage.

#19 Twinspark

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 10:03 PM

They have made an operating profit for many more years than the debt has been there.

I really don't know why the United debt ever enters into these discussions - it's a very different debt, and very different circumstances to those which are forcing clubs into administration.

Debt is very normal for a business - and it isn't a problem if you have the income to service it. (The United debt is a very odd and complex one - they're sitting on £200m of cash reserves, but that's not being used to pay down the debt - if you did take that into account, the debt is circa £100m, or around 1 years worth of operating profit)

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#20 Milo

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 10:15 PM

Ah, the rose-tinted spectacles of a football fan. A quick Google reveals the latest figures suggest a gross debt of £458m and after taking into account cash reserves, a net debt of £308m.




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