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Nest/Hive Smart Heating?


bells0
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I've just got a new boiler and installed the new Valiant vSmart. 

 

Works a treat, excellent control from the iOS app and loads of functionality that the Nest / TADOs can't do as it talks directly to the boiler. So it can adjust the temperature of the water heating the house via weather compensation that the others can't. It also can turn the pre-heat water on as well. 

 

It doesn't do the monitoring of if you are at home but you can do all that yourself easy peasy. I fitted it myself directly to the boiler it was easy just needed a socket near the boiler for the WIFI module. 

 

Very highly recommended and I'm sure its helping to save me money both in optimised start, weather compensation and that I can decide to delay it starting if we are out for instance. 

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Most homes will have pre-determined settings for the heating to come on and off, but to have the convenience of being able to control your heating from your Smart phone must be great. I have a wireless thermostat which has a single most benefit of controlling the hearting from the settee, but the Smart thing is surely beneficial not just for convenience, but economically too. I quite fancy a Nest or Hive.

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We don't used programmed times except in the middle of winter.  I've used the Nest calculator and we'd actually be worse off based on even their most optimistic of savings - because they don't factor in the cost of the investment you make to buy their kit in the first place.

In our case, it'd be a completely pointless gadget.

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We don't used programmed times except in the middle of winter. 

 

Same. We only ever have our heating on in the middle of winter, even then it's on for only 30 mins (benefits of a purpose built flat). It's the controllability of these new Smart systems that appeals.

 

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Our home is a new build but it didn't really come with a great timer system, its one of those click-click round plug in timer kind of jobbies affixed in the front panel of the boiler (Alpha Eco). - Something my wife will probably never attempt to override or mess with.

I love my gadgets so the Nest seems like a good option, its does all the scheduling and you just turn the boiler to ON / continuous. - Let the Nest regulate on-off etc.

 

I agree its not a cheap bit of kit (£249 fitted) and for some not that cost effective, but for me it saves my wife ringing me up saying the house is too cold etc and that she cant manually set the click-click timer to activate it :lol:

 

Nest also integrates with their other devices and products from Philips, Yale, August and many others. :)

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Same. We only ever have our heating on in the middle of winter, even then it's on for only 30 mins (benefits of a purpose built flat). It's the controllability of these new Smart systems that appeals.

 

 

I looked at them very recently.  The element you raise is what appealed.  I then realised it was completely wasting money.

 

So I could switch it on from my phone, on the rare occasion we want to do so - I'd just go get the existing remote control (one of those usual Honeywell units) we have and switch it on.

I would never want to switch it on in preparation for arriving home because it is rare our home will have nobody in it, so if it is cold then there's every chance someone else has put the heating on.  I then thought about someone else leaving it on and going out - how much would I save by the Nest/Hive gear switching it off for the hour or two is is likely to be on unnecessarily?  Very, very little.

We have TRV's on all radiators like most people probably do, so again I'm not going to get much from the other 'intelligent' features.

If someone lives in a home when they like it warm all the time, use their heating a lot, and have lots of people in and out - then I can perhaps understand it more.

However, I spent a good while putting accurate readings in the Nest calculator and the figures they give are frankly misleading. 

My conclusion was that if you buy one of these things you're probably not going to save much, if anything, when you factor in the investment you make.  You're buying a gadget that you probably don't need but that may, just may, be convenient if you live a certain lifestyle (and I'm sure it is useful for some).

Edited by NewNiceMrMe
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I think the big factor for us is that it's a large house, and during the day it is usually just Mrs P & our dogs there, only using a few rooms. So a classical system heats the whole house just for her. This system heats the rooms she & the dogs use, but leaves the other ones. So we save by only heating what we need.

A small place that could be all on or all off probably wouldn't benefit, nor would a big house that is either full or empty. But for us it works.

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That's my issue too.

Big house usually with missus and baby in couple rooms all day and the house is either too cold or too hot.

Even if I try to balance the rads better we have the downstairs warm enough but upstairs boiling (due to rising heat) issues.

At weekends we'd be out as a block so would benefit from having it just coming on when we are heading back.

My fuel bills are ridiculous

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I think the big factor for us is that it's a large house, and during the day it is usually just Mrs P & our dogs there, only using a few rooms. So a classical system heats the whole house just for her. This system heats the rooms she & the dogs use, but leaves the other ones. So we save by only heating what we need.

A small place that could be all on or all off probably wouldn't benefit, nor would a big house that is either full or empty. But for us it works.

 

But isn't that what TRV's are for?  You turn them off or down on the rooms you don't want heating.  If someone is in the room, they turn the TRV up.

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We're having Nest fitted next month, the thermostat and two smoke/Co2 alarms.

I know it's not going to save us any money, our current timed system works perfectly, but I need to replace the smoke and Co2 alarms anyway, and the almost new thermostat is a horrible ugly plastic thing I stare at while sitting on the sofa, and I like gadgets so thought why not.

I was torn between Nest and Hive, Nest is backed by Google (which put me off slightly) and Hive is available in Apple stores, which might mean better integration with iOS products, but not currently, in the end, the decision was based purely on the fact the Nest one looks much nicer, and it links to the alarms.

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Nest and Hive and the others can help in the controllability but much of the effort goes in heater the water sometimes way more than is necessary. 

 

Mine has now learnt how it heats the house and what the boiler power is and the cooling of the house. 

 

So in winter it will come on earlier and with a higher water temperature to get the house warm for a set time in the morning or evening. In the Spring / Autumn it won't try and heat the water to a high temperature so saving money and it will automatically come on later so not heating the house before its needed. It even monitors the temperate drops whilst the heating is on predicting when to add heat so the temperatures are kept constant and not swinging up and down as with an older traditional thermostat. 

 

It all adds up, Optimised start means it isn't warming a house before it needs to be, Weather compensation and variable heating curve will adapt day by day depending on the external temperature and how fast the house is cooling. It even allows for the fact that sun might be keeping the house warmer during the day but the temperature outside is lower. 

 

At the weekend it also means that if we are out for the day I just switch it all off and only get it to switch on ready for our return or not at all if we decide to stay over somewhere like the grand parents. 

 

Like others I like my gadgets and having had the vSMART for a month now I wouldn't be without it, fingers crossed the bills come down which I'm sure they will but the control alone its great for our needs. 

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Oh and it gives me a graph of usage I mean that alone has to be worth it no?

 

In a future update energy both electrical and gas usage will be added so I can track how much is being used for heating or hot water, its like having in built MI for the home..! 

 

I know I know I need to get out more.. blah blah.  :uhoh:

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Nest and Hive and the others can help in the controllability but much of the effort goes in heater the water sometimes way more than is necessary. 

 

Mine has now learnt how it heats the house and what the boiler power is and the cooling of the house. 

 

So in winter it will come on earlier and with a higher water temperature to get the house warm for a set time in the morning or evening. In the Spring / Autumn it won't try and heat the water to a high temperature so saving money and it will automatically come on later so not heating the house before its needed. It even monitors the temperate drops whilst the heating is on predicting when to add heat so the temperatures are kept constant and not swinging up and down as with an older traditional thermostat. 

 

It all adds up, Optimised start means it isn't warming a house before it needs to be, Weather compensation and variable heating curve will adapt day by day depending on the external temperature and how fast the house is cooling. It even allows for the fact that sun might be keeping the house warmer during the day but the temperature outside is lower. 

 

At the weekend it also means that if we are out for the day I just switch it all off and only get it to switch on ready for our return or not at all if we decide to stay over somewhere like the grand parents. 

 

Like others I like my gadgets and having had the vSMART for a month now I wouldn't be without it, fingers crossed the bills come down which I'm sure they will but the control alone its great for our needs. 

 

Ours only heats the water on demand.  I thought most modern boilers did that.  Unless I'm mistaken, all Worcester Bosch Greenstar units do the same?

 

It is down to individual use.  If you're the type of home that manually powers on your heating (and sets your TRV's accordingly), then no Nest or Hive device will ever save you money.  In fact, it can only ever do the opposite.

 

I'd like to see genuine input from any user (in this thread) over the next 12 months who can say the unit has reduced their heating bills.  If they say it has, it can surely only be from people who already used timed on/off heating?

I don't doubt these things can save families money if they fall into the above bracket.  I simply realised very quickly, upon looking, that for us it'd be a complete and utter waste of money. 

Edited by NewNiceMrMe
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But isn't that what TRV's are for?  You turn them off or down on the rooms you don't want heating.  If someone is in the room, they turn the TRV up.

 

We have 20 radiators*.  That's not going to happen twice a day, every day.  Not reliably, anyway.  Hence the controllability aspect of the system becomes important. 

 

*I said it was a big house :coffee:

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We have 20 radiators*.  That's not going to happen twice a day, every day.  Not reliably, anyway.  Hence the controllability aspect of the system becomes important. 

 

*I said it was a big house :coffee:

 

There are 17 radiators here.  I don't think that has a major impact.  I do, however, see how family movements in and out can make a difference, especially if you're a bunch of Southern wusses who can't survive without a tropic like climate. :roflmao:

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Mine has now learnt how it heats the house and what the boiler power is and the cooling of the house. 

 

So in winter it will come on earlier and with a higher water temperature to get the house warm for a set time in the morning or evening. In the Spring / Autumn it won't try and heat the water to a high temperature so saving money and it will automatically come on later so not heating the house before its needed. It even monitors the temperate drops whilst the heating is on predicting when to add heat so the temperatures are kept constant and not swinging up and down as with an older traditional thermostat. 

 

 

I simply realised very quickly, upon looking, that for us it'd be a complete and utter waste of money. 

 

That surmises it well. If you like tech and it suits your needs, you're going to love it, regardless of whether it's economical or not; that's an added bonus if it is. And if you don't live like that, the TRV's and manually controlling your heating is hardly labour intensive.

 

I don't need it. Like NNMM, I manually control, but I like it because of the tricknology. Whether or not I get it remains to be seen. Interesting thread though.

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That surmises it well. If you like tech and it suits your needs, you're going to love it, regardless of whether it's economical or not; that's an added bonus if it is. And if you don't live like that, the TRV's and manually controlling your heating is hardly labour intensive.

 

I don't need it. Like NNMM, I manually control, but I like it because of the tricknology. Whether or not I get it remains to be seen. Interesting thread though.

 

Yes, I get that and you're correct.  Despite a love of tech though, I only buy it if it'll serve a purpose.  For many, Nest/Hive may do, but for me it really would be a case of buying for buying sake - and that isn't what I do (believe it or not!).

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