Mook Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 OK, OK, it's the devil's fuel - everyone knows that, especially on here, but I've had my fair share of tractors The current theme seems to be that "this govt" or "that govt" got it wrong, pushing everyone to get diesels, apparently. Yes, they give out particulates, and they aren't very good for squirrels et al, but why the sudden move to condemn the devil? For example, if I replaced the 180 black horses in my Transporter with, say a 230 petrol-powered horses from a Golf GTI (not as much torque, but you get the idea - I don't care about power in a diesel - it's all about torque), then I reckon it would have similar performance. With me so far? I get about 32mpg out of the van now on a long run. If I stuck a petrol engine in it, from experience of driving the same model of petrol and diesel cars in the past, I reckon I'd get something like 22mpg - maybe a bit more, maybe a bit less, but who cares for the purpose of this illustration. I know that the new BMWs, for example, give mental consumption out of a gallon of diesel and petrol, but the diesel will always give more mpg than the petrol. So I now have a petrol van which isn't killing hedgehogs, but it's using nearly 50% more fuel than the oil-burner (320 miles would cost 10 gallons in the tractor and 14.5 gallons in the petrol). Surely that's a shed-load worse than having a diesel-powered van with a Diesel Particulate Filter fitted? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_C Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 You've said it yourself - diesel isn't evil - the Government have simply done a U turn so they can tax us now that most people have diesels due to the ridiculous price of fuel in the UK The new car tax system is a joke. The 40k surcharge is one of the most blatant tax the rich set ups I've seen in a while, it applies to electric cars, so a Tesla now pays the same tax as an Aventador. Go figure. Cannot believe the Tories introduced this - anyone would think it's a Labour tax! There used to be a real up-front incentive to have a smaller more efficient engine. First example that comes to mind - a choice a friend of mine made recently - a 1.0 petrol turbo (three cylinder) Fiesta was free to tax, whereas a 1.25 petrol was £110 ish. So if you keep the car 10 years and do low mileage and buy a car once every 10 years (like he does) that's £1100 in your pocket. The 1.0 turbo costs more to buy, and a major selling feature was the fact the economy was better and the CO2 was less - hence it was free to tax - but if they are the same price to tax, people might just buy the cheaper 1.25 which is less efficient and makes more CO2. The sooner the government bite the bullet and put it on fuel with a rebate set up for vat registered companies (taxi firms, haulage, bus companies etc etc) the better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser647 Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 It's only because VW got caught cheating. Highlighted a few things that were easy to tax Whereas big power stations that burn cola and oil, blurt out as much 'guff' as millions of cars, but because they are owned by big companies, government don't touch them, nor force them to fit 'filters' etc. Someone needs to bite the bullet and run a CO2 dump to fill up old coal mines/oil wells/gas wells with CO2 from the atmosphere. There are so many simple ways to do this..... but it's easier to tax individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Bangle Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 The Blair government actively encouraged people to buy diesel-engined vehicles because of the improved fuel economy and (at the time) cheaper fuel price before scientific research resulted in the government changing tack and moving the goalposts with proposals such as 5k extra tax (!), a ban of diesel-engined vehicles within the M25! like to see how that works out for deliveries All this is due to a case brought against the UK government by a bunch of environmental nutjobs called ClientEarth. The High Court ruled that the UK is doing nowhere near enough to meet air pollution targets. Nitrogen emissions from diesel vehicles were singled out as a particular problem, with ministers accused of relying on “optimistic” tests. A big takeaway from the ruling was that the government “must be tougher on diesel.” Sweden is also trying to tax diesel sales to death, I pay twice as much road tax on my diesel car than I do the M2! Here, 2020 was suggested as the date to ban diesel sales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser647 Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Deliveries and black cabs...... How about all those old cars that burn oil like it's going out of fashion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipex Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Taxation cycle, that's all it is. Stop buying X it's bad for the environment, buy Y instead here's an incentive. Ten years later, we aren't getting much tax from X any more, we've discovered Y is actually bad now, buy X again, here is an incentive. Until someone invents a truly viable Z we'll be stuck in the cycle, then you'll get ten years to take advantage of Z's incentives until it's decided that is actually bad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-bmw Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 16 hours ago, cruiser647 said: Someone needs to bite the bullet and run a CO2 dump to fill up old coal mines/oil wells/gas wells with CO2 from the atmosphere. IIRC BP offerred the Blair government exactly that instead of decommissioning North Sea rigs, even spending £50m of their own money, alas his Toniness reneged on the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser647 Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 58 minutes ago, E-bmw said: IIRC BP offerred the Blair government exactly that instead of decommissioning North Sea rigs, even spending £50m of their own money, alas his Toniness reneged on the deal. Ahhh, Tony - Don't ya just love him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuprabob Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 59 minutes ago, E-bmw said: IIRC BP offerred the Blair government exactly that instead of decommissioning North Sea rigs, even spending £50m of their own money, alas his Toniness reneged on the deal. Must have caught him on a bad day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 It's only fairly recently that scientific research has shown the particulates in diesel fumes are a higher health risk than those from petrol fumes and a contributor to the severe health impacts of city smog. I imagine newer diesel engines with DPFs are better, but still dirtier than efficient petrol engines. As is always the case when you mix science and politics the message gets dumbed down because the ignorant masses can only cope with one thing at a time. Ten years ago it was all about the carbon impact on climate change (despite vehicle emissions actually accounting for a tiny percentage of green house gases), now it's diesel fumes and killer smog. You'd be forgiven for thinking we suddenly no longer have an issue with carbon emissions. Hopefully this will reduce the ridiculous ratio of diesel cars bought versus petrol. But I'm sure we'll soon have a new tax regime where our cars are taxed by the number of windows or spare seats they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted February 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 I get that particulates aren't good for you, but surely if everyone drives vehicles that use 50% more alternative fuel, then that alternative fuel has got stuff in it's that's also bad - not the same bad as particulates, but bad in a different way. Or is uranium really safe, all of a sudden..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 We need an experiment. Follow a diesel car around Chernobyl for as long as it takes and see what kills you first. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted February 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 You go first 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser647 Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 Electric cars will be evil soon... once they start running people over becasue you don't hear them coming..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 They already are evil to anyone who actually understands anything about them, rather than the gullible morons who've fallen for the publicity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted February 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 Electric cars being "green" is such a load of shit. The flying of components all around the world, the massive amount of energy required to manufacture them and moving the energy used to power them further up the chain is kack. That said, I quite fancy some kind of electro-mobile for buzzing around locally, dropping kids at school etc - because they only cost 1p a mile or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 I should add, I don't necessarily mean to criticise everyone who buys one. They make sense for certain tyes of use. And they are, in one way or another, a stepping stone to the future of motoring. Just don't kid yourself that you're being a mighty ecowarrior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted February 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 1 hour ago, garcon magnifique said: I should add, I don't necessarily mean to criticise everyone who buys one. Oh do feck off. Of course you do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) Well maybe a little bit. But really just the uninformed, self-righteous ecowarriors. We all know "I drive a Prius" is basically Californian for "Look at me, I'm a better person than you, I'm saving the planet!" No you're not. Drivetribe - What car would you give your worst enemy? Edited February 24, 2017 by garcon magnifique Prius abuse 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldavo69 Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 We had a Leaf for 2 years. It cost nothing to run or park and was surprisingly sprightly. It was not environmentally friendly in any way and will be sat in a Landfill somewhere within the next 5 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted February 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 But that's bollox though, isn't it - surely you had to charge it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 The thing is charging a car overnight is reasonably environmentally friendly especially when power is created and not used overnight for example. Plus most of the modern electric cars created today are designed to me far more recyclable that many other cars, in fact the EU mandates it these days. As for the diesel debate, does nobody else notice that horrid stick in your throat feeling when you are walking along a busy road these days. A modern diesel is pretty good but everything pre-EU5/6 is dire by comparison. I suspect the government are going to offer people driving old diesels and incentive to upgrade to a more modern car, but I agree the new car tax rules are pathetic at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldavo69 Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 4 hours ago, Mook said: But that's bollox though, isn't it - surely you had to charge it up? Yup. But hardly ever at home. There's a Park and Ride just 5 mins round the corner from us. Used to drive there on a Wednesday with the dog and plug the car into a quick charger and walk the dog back. Then go back after dinner with the dog and pick it back up. At the weekend we'd either go into town or the Metro Centre and charge up and park for free there. Newcastle had an amazing charging infrastructure 2-3 years ago but now there are too many plug in hybrids so the charge bays are more often than not busy. When the Mrs had her weekly meetings at the practice in town she'd park over the road from the surgery and charge up there too. We very rarely charged it up at home - I can sell you a Rolec Type 2 charging box cheaply though! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuprabob Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 Sweeping statements by Ministers don't help. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4258028/Beware-buying-diesel-vehicles-Chris-Grayling-warns.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser647 Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 On 24/02/2017 at 8:43 PM, CarMad said: The thing is charging a car overnight is reasonably environmentally friendly especially when power is created and not used overnight for example. Plus most of the modern electric cars created today are designed to me far more recyclable that many other cars, in fact the EU mandates it these days. As for the diesel debate, does nobody else notice that horrid stick in your throat feeling when you are walking along a busy road these days. A modern diesel is pretty good but everything pre-EU5/6 is dire by comparison. I suspect the government are going to offer people driving old diesels and incentive to upgrade to a more modern car, but I agree the new car tax rules are pathetic at best. I get that 'asthma' type feeling when sitting behind an old motorbike (pre-2000), pre-CAT car or souped up boy racer car without a CAT. Also I seem to be able to smell an oil burning petrol car from miles away. Then usually end up sitting behind them in the traffic and having to stick the air-recirculation on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now