stuartjw Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 Hello, I have a 1996 Golf GTi 2 litre 8 valve which I have not had long. It is not running too smoothly but there is no light on on the dash - Has someone disconnected to the bulb? My mate plugged his laptop in with Vag-Com yesterday and the following fault code appeared: 1 Fault Found: 00515 - Camshaft Position (Hall) Sensor (G40) 16-10 - Signal Outside Specifications We cleared this fault and it re-appeared as soon as I re-started it. I just really want to know what this fault code exactly means - Is the timing incorrect (Could this cause it) or is it just a faulty position sensor. Also the Haynes manual seems to suggest that a competent Distributor specialist will be able to replace the sensor without replacing the whole unit - Is this worth it? What steps should I take first? Oh yeah - Forgot to mention the rev limit kicks in at 5,000 RPM too. Any help is much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidmark Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 I would change the disi complete if the miles are high. If on low miles...just the hall sender depends on cost of bits & if you do the work yourself a disi change is quick & effective but they are not cheap good luck anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartjw Posted September 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 OK cheers for that. The distributors are £85 from eurocarparts for an exchange or would it be recomended to get a VW one? Is it simply a case of taking the cap off marking where the rotos is and replacing with the new one with rotor in the same position? If the engine needs to be set to TDC - Is it easy enough to turn the crankshaft with a socket or is it limited in space to get to? Is the problem likely to be anything else - ie the timing slightly out? The car has done 82,000miles so it is not really high. Thanks in advance. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidmark Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 euro are ok for bits....vw will be more expensive ! you will need to set the engine up [tdc etc] to avoid making a balls of it. If your not certain what your doing get help. the crank pulley bolt is got at via the off/side wheel arch. [need to jack it up and take road wheel off] I think its 19mm ? it could be something else [this is just my opinion ] faulty wiring / ecu are other possibles but as diog said hall sender and the rev limit is an issue the disi seems a good bet IMHO I,ve been wrong b4 !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartjw Posted September 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 Would it be OK to mark on the engine where the rotor arm points and then change the distributor and ensure it points back to the same position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidmark Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 you need to mark where the outer body of the disi (old & new) is in relation to the engine...[ctr punch b4 you unbolt] the rotor posn is fixed on the disi shaft...&...the disi shaft will only locate in one posn on the drive from the engine. as soon as you unbolt the disi..AND IT MOVES..all the original setup is lost !! hope you get there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartjw Posted September 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 OK I got a new distributor (Well Replacement) from GSF for £85+VAT including the cap and the rotor arm. I took the cap off the old one and it was pointing to a position where I managed to wedge something to show the exact alignment - It was not far off TDC. I then removed the old one and fitted the new one in exactly the same position (Rotor arm and Distributor body) and swapped all the HT leads over one by one. I was going to jack the car up and turn the wheel to try and get TDC but the jack is rubbish and the car bizzarlly did not have any positions which I thought were suitable. Anyway after replacing the Distrbutor, putting it all back together I disconnected the battery for 10 minutes - Does this reset fault codes? Anyway I started it and it does run a lot smoother and would appear to be running a lot better so I took it out on a longer run - The rev limit kicks in at 5,000RPM still so I presume the problem is still there - I am gonna use Vag-Com to reset the ECU today though but I kinda think the problem will still be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobes49 Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 Check to see if the fault code is there when the engine is running? It will allways log a (G40) Hall sender unit fault with the engine not running, A 1996 would have a crank postion sensor this tells the ECU how fast the engine running and the G40 sensor is just used for TDC marking for the ECU. When the ruff running Idle or Acc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidmark Posted September 18, 2004 Report Share Posted September 18, 2004 not there yet run the diog again & check to see where timing is at ? when you say the limiter is coming in at 5k, is it cutting bang on 5k or running out of puff & wont go over 5k ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartjw Posted September 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 What do you mean check to see where the timing is at? The rev limit cuts in just above 5,000RPM - I dont think it is just running out of puff - I think it is the ECU cutting it in - I have a new Fuel filter as I am unsure when it was replaced but judging by the colour of the Cabin filter I just replaced and how dirty it was the fuel filter may not have been done at 60K miles. The engine is running rough through the rev range when accelerating. I am quite picky as well - Some people may not think it is running rough - It is very smooth once it is going at a steady pace too. The fault code is there when the engine is not on. If you clear it the fault code comes back as soon as you start it. Someone has told me it is either the distributor - Probably not as I have replaced it now, the wiring or the ECU itself. Could it be the timing? Could the sensor actually detect that is out slightly? I did not have time to change the fuel filter or check the timing this weekend though. Thanks for any further help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidmark Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 It sounds like the timing is out you have covered the disi/hall sender bit ..... is the fault code on when the engine is running ? does the engine cut at 5k in any gear [2nd / 3rd]..? maybe Tobes can help with the rev limit..is it part of the ecu software or a function of sensor + ecu ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartjw Posted September 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 How far out can the timing actually be? Would it be a whole tooth out and if so would it run at all? I know the belt was done last year but it was not a VW belt so obviously wasnt done by VW. The rev limit does kick in in all gears. How would I find out if the ECU was faulty? Or is it a case of swapping it to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidmark Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 I'm not saying the timing belt is out...that would be valves & ign all out..that is a can of worms !! I am guessing that it has run ok since the belt change [?] and this problem has started on its own [not related ?] you need to get the car on a crypton / sun diognostic jobie [local garage] to check where the ignition timing is. if it has never run well since the belt change then it is looking 'not good' ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartjw Posted September 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 I am not sure if it has been running like this since the belt change as I have not had it long. What do you mean that it will be not good - Does this mean it could be expensive? What other damage could it have caused? Thanks for all your help Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidmark Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 if the belt is out [by a tooth say] then the the engine will not run properly (at best) and bend the valves / bash the pistons (at worst) I don't think its the worst one...the engine would simply destroy itself in that case ! but as you now are not sure about the belt timing [?] you need to check it to rule it out of possible causes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartjw Posted September 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2004 Hi, I went to a local VW specialist - Volkswerk who have been round some time and axplained all the symptoms. He seemed to point towards the crankshaft speed sensor. Does anyone have any thoughts on this as surely it would have its own fault code. He said that if the signal is weak it may cut in the rev limit. Are the crankshaft and camshaft sensors compared in the ECU in any way or linked. Is this a feasable explanation? I have not had time to check the timing as it is wet again today. The reason I ask is because the crankshaft sensor is £100 and they would charge £40 to fit it and not guarantee it would fix it. Thanks again for any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartjw Posted September 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2004 OK I have managed to fix the problem. Yesterday I put cylinder 1 at top dead centre and the Rotor arm was out of alignment. I took the distributor out and it was a whole tooth out. Put it back in and started it up and it was a lot smoother. After a bit of a blast down thew back road the revs went straight past 5,000 RPM. It is a bit worrying that it was out though - The distributor looked like the original and I cant see why anyoine would have removed it in the first place. Also you dont have to remove it to do the timing belt. Anyway I am well happy that it seems to be fixed. It was a bit obvious too that the rotor arm had been sparking right on the edge. Thanks for all the help this forum has given me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobes49 Posted September 26, 2004 Report Share Posted September 26, 2004 I'm placing my bets on the woodruf key in the crank pully has gone! Have you checked to see if the cam timing is slighty out??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidmark Posted September 26, 2004 Report Share Posted September 26, 2004 pleased that your getting [got] there... nice to get past 5k... I bet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidmark Posted September 26, 2004 Report Share Posted September 26, 2004 [ QUOTE ] I'm placing my bets on the woodruf key in the crank pully has gone! Have you checked to see if the cam timing is slighty out??? [/ QUOTE ] I had a crank pully / woodruf key cocked up by a main dealer following a belt change on a mk3 16v engine [ABF]....found it when I did the belt change again 70k later... s worth checking!!...I was lucky it lasted the 70k and didn't wreck the engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartjw Posted September 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'm placing my bets on the woodruf key in the crank pully has gone! Have you checked to see if the cam timing is slighty out??? [/ QUOTE ] If the Cam timing is out with respect to the crankshaft timing? The Rotor arm timing with respect to the camshaft is bang on after turning it 1 tooth on the cog. If it has gone what will that mean? How do I get it checked out and what damage could occur if it is broken? Also what exactly is it? Should I be worried? Thanks Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartjw Posted September 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Also I did notice that the belt seemed a bit slack. I am not an expert but I could twist it over 90degrees. Not by much but when I did the belt on my old polo it definitely went further. Still not 100% what the woodruf key is but is it cheap enough to replace? The belt was done about a year ago. When replacing the belt is there anyway of knocking out the ignition timing? Are the thoughts that the Woodruf key could have sheered slightly causing the ignition timing to go slightly out? What do I need to do to check this? Does the crank pulley have to come off and is it an easy job to do for a garage? You have made me a bit nervous now!!!! Cheers Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartjw Posted September 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Just a thought - Would that mean that the woodruf thingy would have had to shear perfectly to the next tooth on the distributor? This is because the Camshaft appeared to line perfectly when moved by one tooth. Does the lower cambelt cover have to come off to check the crankshaft linings? It may be nothing but the car has had a new coil fitted recently. Could the garage have removed the distributor to try and fix the problem and mistakingly put it back in? I did not tension the timing belt anymore as it needed circlip pliers to do and I dont have any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidmark Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'm placing my bets on the woodruf key in the crank pully has gone! Have you checked to see if the cam timing is slighty out??? [/ QUOTE ] I had a crank pully / woodruf key cocked up by a main dealer following a belt change on a mk3 16v engine [ABF]....found it when I did the belt change again 70k later... s worth checking!!...I was lucky it lasted the 70k and didn't wreck the engine [/ QUOTE ] Just thinking back [it was a few years back & I was old then ]........the crank pully was removed to sort an oil leak (change crank oil seal), not for the timing belt change...sorry to confuse matters. The crank pully is not removed to change the timing belt... So to get back to your prob you need to check that when the crank timing mark is lined up with its ref mark, the cam timing mark is lined up with its ref mark. If it isn't..........turn the engine a little [by hand] until it is[in line].... and that will indicate the error, which could be one tooth ...or less if the woodruff key/crank pully has moved I won't go on any more tonight...see how it goes up to there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobes49 Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 [ QUOTE ] Also I did notice that the belt seemed a bit slack. I am not an expert but I could twist it over 90degrees. Not by much but when I did the belt on my old polo it definitely went further. [/ QUOTE ] The old check used to be if you could turn the belt to about 90deg that about right (not the best way of checking) [ QUOTE ] Still not 100% what the woodruf key is but is it cheap enough to replace? The belt was done about a year ago. When replacing the belt is there anyway of knocking out the ignition timing? Are the thoughts that the Woodruf key could have sheered slightly causing the ignition timing to go slightly out? What do I need to do to check this? Does the crank pulley have to come off and is it an easy job to do for a garage? You have made me a bit nervous now!!!! [/ QUOTE ] the woodruf key is normally a D shaped ped that locates the pulley(in a set postion) on to a drive.(A woodruf key does not take the drive). On the VW the woodruf key is built into the (cam belt) drive pulley. These shear off and the pulley moves on the crankshaft. so when the crankshaft on TDC (no 1 pistion at the top) But the cambelt pulley has moved round and in a different place. It easy to check, line up the TDC mark in the gearbox inspection plug then check the Aux drive belt pulley mark and see if they are both pointing to there marks. if not it the keys gone. It can be easy to loose the igntion timming during a cam belt change, so thats could also be the problem. Best bet is to have it checked out and be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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