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bazza_g

Number plate spacing....

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There is no grey area with the law on plates. It clearly says:

Number plates fitted after 1 September 2001 must display characters that meet the dimensions shown below.

Characters

Height 79mm

Width (except the figure 1 or letter l) 50mm

Stroke 14mm

Space between characters 11mm

Space between groups 33mm

Top, bottom and side margins (minimum) 11mm

Space between vertical lines 19mm

Now if you'd like to take a chance, by all means, but the law is the law. Some people get away with all sorts of petty crime that they don't even regard as an offence against the law, but some don't. If you do doctor your plate and get caught, then you can't plead ignorance or come crying over here.

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yes, but walker was fined for the difference between a group spacing and a character spacing...thats about as near as you can get to having a legal plate without it being legal as defined above...

group spacings are obviously redundant in terms of identifying a reg plate as the police dont say over their intercomm...

"can you do a check on tango six SPACE tango charlie foxtrot" for instance.

as for the "law is the law". any lawyer will tell you thats just not true. i'd be rather upset if i was given 3 points and a fine for doing 31mph in a 30mph zone and told "the law is the law".

my two p's worth.

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i'd be rather upset if i was given 3 points and a fine for doing 31mph in a 30mph zone and told "the law is the law".

But the law has a tolerance in the amount of speed to allow for speedometer error etc so it is very unlikely you would be prosecuted in this case.

On the other hand, the drink driving limit is exactly 80mg/ml blood. If you have 81mg/ml, you will be disqualified.

I am sure if you move one of the letters 1mm to the left, you will never be detected. The discussion here is about blatantly doctoring a plate so it will look like something it is not. That is breaking the law.

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there is no tolerance for speed limits written in law, it varies on a per county basis, but if they can apply tolerance and a minute amount of common sense to speed limits, why cant they apply it to spacing changes that dont affect the readability of the plate or disguise the reg no?

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but if they can apply tolerance and a minute amount of common sense to speed limits, why cant they apply it to spacing changes that dont affect the readability of the plate or disguise the reg no?

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Because we can make rulers more accurately than tacho's.

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Well said Simon. I'm having trouble understanding why vanity drives people to think they are above the law.

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[ QUOTE ]

There is no grey area with the law on plates. It clearly says:

Number plates fitted after 1 September 2001 must display characters that meet the dimensions shown below.

Characters

Height 79mm

Width (except the figure 1 or letter l) 50mm

Stroke 14mm

Space between characters 11mm

Space between groups 33mm

Top, bottom and side margins (minimum) 11mm

Space between vertical lines 19mm

Now if you'd like to take a chance, by all means, but the law is the law. Some people get away with all sorts of petty crime that they don't even regard as an offence against the law, but some don't. If you do doctor your plate and get caught, then you can't plead ignorance or come crying over here.

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The law is the law, however what puzzled me is that that day (as well as others) I had 4 police cars behind me and not one stopped me, they had every chance but decided not to do so as they probably thought the plate was clearly ledgeable in addition my friend is a copper and he said he wouldn't look twice at the reg.

Don't get me wrong I am not complaining, the spacing is wrong and I will change it no problem as 'the law is the law'.

However I do think that these laws are slightly hypocritical, as the DVLA rakes hords of cash in selling these number plates encouraging all this.

I find it very blinkered attitude if the only answer back to this is 'the law is the law'. (My two pennies worth....)! tongue.gif

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[ QUOTE ]

However I do think that these laws are slightly hypocritical, as the DVLA rakes hords of cash in selling these number plates encouraging all this.

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smile.gif That is a very good point - why does the spacing matter anyway ? so long as the actual size/font of the numbers and letters remains the same ?

Personally I reckon that although "the law is the law" - its a really dull law that deserves to be bent tongue.gif

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Saw a plate today which was messed with to create a name.

Basically it had a 111 in it and a black blob was placed at the top between the 2nd and 3rd 1s to create an 'n'. The 1st letter was and L therefore it spelt LIN (L111), the remaing letters were moved so it finished off the 1st name and the last letter was for the surname.

It was completely in contradiction to the law but at the same time you could easily see what the actual number was - so realistically whats the problem there.

I agree the DVLA have a lot to answer for buy encouraging people to buy plates that 'might' spell out your name or if theres one that does the it's bound to cost mega £££s, so regular folk try and do it themselves by adding wee black dots or strategically placed screws.

Ah weel, let 'em get on with it and if the law catches them , well they'll have to sort it out smile.gif

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Sorry, but as you guess, feel strongly about this topic.

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Why do so many people feel the same way as Colin regarding these plates?

PEN15 is a hoot! The Nissan Sunny that used to drive around here many yrs back with A911 CAB seemed a bit daft but on the Porsche it inevitably went to would be the cherry on the cake! Wouldn't it? You prolly not agree? So someone shifts a character to spell (or nearly spell) summit, chill does and dudettes, they be having a little harmless fun.

BI9 FUN would be cool on a Caterham wouldn’t it? Poncey on a Porsche? S8 CRO would have been nice for me if I could afford the car (CRO 1st part of my surname).

GEO2 GEC would do perfik for me with a little shifting of spaces, naff on a Roller would you forgive me if it was on that R500 Evolulion Caterham? FIREdevil.gif

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A911 CAB noting wrong with that at all...

PEN15 well we'd all know what that actually was froma fair distance, but still NONO3.GIF

Let me present a little example and test case that may happen one day :

I followed a Nissan type van thing out of Bedford today and the plate had been changed to something like F1?... and the ? looed like a reversed F to make it FA..... Now from even a short distance (one car length) I Could not work out what the registration was supposed to be. (this happend to me today)

(this bit did not) :

Now consider said nissan Van runs someone over and kills them (and is at fault and plainly guilty of manslaughter), I am the only witness.

I can tell the police it was a red Nissin Van, reg A1? xxx. How many A1? xxx nissan vans are there in Bedford ? / Bedfordsire / Southeast / or the UK.

Still the police find the driver and they are 100% certain it's him so he is off to crown court and up on a manslaughter charge in front of a jury.

<Defence laywer> : please describe the driver

<Scooby_Simon> The driver was 180cm, black jeans, red top blue deck shoes.

<DL> And the registration Sir ?

<SS> A1?(Backwards F) XXX.

<DL> Oh, the witness is not certain of the index number (as backwards F is not a vaild index letter) of the vehicle involved in the accident, Members of the jury, there are 20 red nissan vans with the index A1?(or even ?) in the Bedford area, there are 30 in the south reast and over 100 nationally. I feel I have presented reasonable doubt that my client was not driving the red nissan that was involved in the accident. QED

This is why I do not like dodgy placement of letter / numbers and screws in index plates.

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ive had no problems with my plate and it is C 13*** been followed by the police

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That’s cool, but the chances of Joe Public remembering C BUSH on that dark coloured Favriot (easy C Bush, just teasing!! tongue.gif) rather than C13 USH or what ever the correct number is have got to be gr8ly increased. Plus the case you give is correct. But some peoples reaction to these mis-spaced plates is the fact that the plate is an X5 on an X5 ROLLEY~14.GIF What’s wrong with that? Yeah I do have an A8 plate on my eight, and no, I would not have put it on there (car came with...honest UHOH7.GIF). But I'd dig deep to have Steve Parish's PEN15 plate, what a riot grin.gif

Yeah you look a right plumb with B19 AL as a reg plate, but L11 NOB would be funny to drive around with grin.gif I don’t understand the amount of hatred some of you guys have for what is just a bit of fun…

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I don't hate people who do It, most of the time it is just laughable, some nob head putting a private plate on a 1.1 fiesta for example, why smashfreakB.gif

the CBUSH example above, although I don't agree with it, I can understand why and also would think that most people would work out what the correct plate was very quickly. Ditto A8 ABC, no problem there either - nearly bought Alison a V70 xxx for her new car. But the plate I spotted today, IMO, anyone would struggle to work out what it was actually supposed to be - that is what really upsets me.

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[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

However I do think that these laws are slightly hypocritical, as the DVLA rakes hords of cash in selling these number plates encouraging all this.

[/ QUOTE ]

smile.gif That is a very good point - why does the spacing matter anyway ? so long as the actual size/font of the numbers and letters remains the same ?

Personally I reckon that although "the law is the law" - its a really dull law that deserves to be bent tongue.gif

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A bit like this then ! 265660-tyresmoker32.jpg

post-4263-137914286674_thumb.jpg

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[ QUOTE ]

Well said Simon. I'm having trouble understanding why vanity drives people to think they are above the law.

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Humph, "let-he-who-is-without-sin" ugh Colin?

Who has ever been spotted by plod doing over 80mph on the motorway and they haven't knicked ya?/Parked on a double yellw whilst "just popping in to the"?

I think the knobs who park at night on the wrong side of the road and leave their dipped beams on are far worse. Why do they think we have to ajdust our headlights to drive in certain other countries? smashfreakB.gif

Disguising your number plate, I'd wholeheartedly agree...

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But the plate I spotted today, IMO, anyone would struggle to work out what it was actually supposed to be - that is what really upsets me.

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Agreed but what you say is logical, I hear irrational in many cases...

The "VW 04 FUN" onan R32 would be a very cool plate (I'm a obviously a cupid stunt tongue.gif)

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[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

But the plate I spotted today, IMO, anyone would struggle to work out what it was actually supposed to be - that is what really upsets me.

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Agreed but what you say is logical, I hear irrational in many cases...

The "VW 04 FUN" onan R32 would be a very cool plate (I'm a obviously a cupid stunt tongue.gif)

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But it is instantly obvious what the index is. My major issue is with altered letters/numbers/spacing and screw heads that make it difficult or impossible to identify the index number. "VW 04 FUN" is still illigally spaced, but I think you would be unlucky to get pulled and a ticket for it, but if you did then it is your own doing. The one I spotted in Bedford on Saturday was totally unacceptable and should have been sorted out ASAP.

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[/ QUOTE ]But it is instantly obvious what the index is. My major issue is with altered letters/numbers/spacing and screw heads that make it difficult or impossible to identify the index number. "VW 04 FUN" is still illigally spaced, but I think you would be unlucky to get pulled and a ticket for it, but if you did then it is your own doing. The one I spotted in Bedford on Saturday was totally unacceptable and should have been sorted out ASAP.

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Agreed, thats is rational, but what of those that treat it like they have a phobia? ROLLEY~14.GIF

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I drive past one regularly it is supposed to look like a womans name with the addition of THREE black scre covers and one yellow. She should be locked up and the key thrown away.

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This is something that will cost u a £30 pound fine if the police decide to give you a fixed penalty. Sounds like having "a rant" at the officer didnt help your case there!

As i mentioned in my earlier post, some forces have a scheme whereby you have to have the plates replaced with legal ones, once you have proved this work has been done that is the end of the matter.

If the cop was on a bike, he was probably traffic, and they really are a different breed!

Every cop has the chance to use discretion and let u off, but I fully agree, once you start changing it to the extent that someone cannot tell which ketters have been used, it becomes a No-no and potentially dangerous in the situation as described in relation to potential witnesses

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Just walked to the local for 6 pints of milk and on the way back I noticed a difference on the timeless 850 SE a Scandanavian guy down my road owns. He has reverted his plate from [standard font] K* 1GOR back to K*1 GOR, even using the battered original Volvo dealer named plates. Bedford police must be pulling people...

Ian C

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