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Driver caught doingf 145mph!

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Spot the usual tired old cliches, it's the speed that kills apparently, not inappropriate speed.

Personally, whilst I wouldn't want to condone 145mph on a dual carriageway, assuming it was empty, dry, and well sighted then I would suggest that it is a world away from doing 60mph in a 30mph zone...

BBC news story

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Recon this guy's gonna get the book thrown at him.... And I agree there is a very big difference between excessive speed on a motor way and 30 mph zone speeding. 145 mph is still excessive no mater where its done though..

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Oh indeed, it's a big number alright, and looks spectacular in print.

But let me ask you this, (and I appreciate this is taking the argument to the extreme but I'm just trying to make a point so forgive me), would you rather sit next to a trained performance driver on an empty well sighted dry dual carriageway in a new Porsche 911 as he wound it up to 145mph and back down, or would you rather sit next to a myopic penshioner for an hour in an old Metro that barely scraped past its MOT 11 months ago on a very busy motorway in pouring rain at night at 69mph?

Only one of them is breaking the law...

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Two problems with high speed though.

1. Energy in moving vehicle.

Kinetic energy is equal to one-half of mass times the square of velocity. Say a car weighs 1,600kg and is moving at 30mph (13.4m/s), then the energy is 144k Joules. At 60mph the energy is 575kJ, ie 4 times the amount at 30mph.

At 145mph, the car has 3,356kJ, ie 23 times the amount at 30mph. The driver therefore turns his car into a very potent missile at high speeds such as this.

2. The second point is that very few drivers have proper experience of high speed control and so the opportunity of loss of that control is greatly magnified.

Modern cars surround the driver in a warm quiet cocoon and chances are that motorist was belting along fat dumb and happy in his 3.3 million joule bundle of kinetic energy.

Lack of accident conditioning probably also put him in the frame of mind that it wouldn't happen to him.

I don't care how highly spec'd the car was, 145mph is completely inappropriate for public roads at any time of the day or night.

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[ QUOTE ]

Oh indeed, it's a big number alright, and looks spectacular in print.

But let me ask you this, (and I appreciate this is taking the argument to the extreme but I'm just trying to make a point so forgive me), would you rather sit next to a trained performance driver on an empty well sighted dry dual carriageway in a new Porsche 911 as he wound it up to 145mph and back down, or would you rather sit next to a myopic penshioner for an hour in an old Metro that barely scraped past its MOT 11 months ago on a very busy motorway in pouring rain at night at 69mph?

Only one of them is breaking the law...

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you..its just choosing the lesser of two evils... But I know what I would prefer..

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So your answer to my question would be that you'd feel less at risk with the penshioner in the old Metro on a busy dark wet motorway than with our trained driver in his new 911 on a dry empty dual carriageway?

(As I say, I appreciate I'm exaggerating both end of the spectrum but trying to make the point that there is more to speed/danger than simply an "ooh gosh" big number).

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Another point, and this is typical government anti-speeding spin and media twist, on the news the comment was made that on average speeds have dropped and speeding has been reduced "but we still occasionally get manics like this".

But they seemed to overlook the point that whilst speeds have been lowered, (and a fortune made in speeding fines for the government), road accident statistics have not decreased...

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Just a little spin on this one:

I was just wondering if there was an upper limit to the speed a Police traffic driver will hit in response to an emergency or a chase.

Obviously Colin’s kinetic energy argument very much applies to Police cars on emergency calls.

I imagine the first line of defence for any claim that Police drivers are just as dangerous would be the training they have undergone extensive (is it?) training. Admittedly having gone through a structured training programme they will be drilled in awareness and spotting danger but I don’t recall drivers being asked what kind of training they have when being pulled over.

I do agree with the idea that a professional racing driver being caught at say 100 is far, far less dangerous than the near blind octogenarian doing 60 in a neglected car glued to the middle lane. Providing, of course, said racing driver was driving to the extent of their ability.

Also I think ‘appropriate speed’ is key and is something that needs to be re-evaluated particularly with respect to the 1960s speed limits in this country. But far more concerning I think are the number of police astra diesels (never the most sporting of rides) I see coming past my place at obscene angles, occasionally with one wheel in the air and more often than not with their wheels caked in brake dust…

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Couple of answers to that one.

I attended a Police Safer Driving course a few years ago. Mainly classroom based, but culminating in a couple of hour "demonstration" drive by trained traffic officers.

The level of professionalism in the way that these guys drive is genuinely impressive, but nothing that couldn't be emulated by a private individual with some advanced driving training, the desire to drive consistantly that well, and a lot of common sense. Most of it is about observation, loking ahead, assessing danger, and driving at a speed appropriate to that. We were in a Ford Sierra Cosworth (wel, I said it was a few years ago!) and I'm sure we got past 130mph a couple of times, entirely coincidently on the same dual carriageway (although maybe a different bit) as this guy was stopped on!

Secondly, your point about regular (ie non traffic) police in Panda cars like the Escorts, Astras etc. Unless things have changed, apparently these drivers get no special training at all before they're allowed to light up the "blues and twos" and hare around town in full "red mist" mode (which p*sses off the trained traffic guys no end!) This may have changed now, but I'm sure that was what I was told. Scary huh?

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Bless them, they also have 5 series BMWs which I have seen getting towards being sideways several times. I think the BMW 5-0 chappies have had proper training though because they look rather adept and in control wink.gif

Its those pesky astras that worry me, especially now they're silver and you can barely see them crazy.gif

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Coming back on topic,

Would you say a driver who:

Accelerated linearly from 80 to 145 (just to see what it was like) and then immediately eased off back to 80 - i.e. 30 seconds at naughty speeds

should be treated differently

to a driver cruising at 125 mph plus, peaking at 145 over a prolonged distance?

The law doesnt' differentiate between the two, I wonder what you think

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I think it's all about circumstances.

Someone who nails it up to 145mph (in an appropriate car in appropriate conditions) and slows it back to say 85mph as he approaches other traffic has (I think) to be safer than someone in an inappropriate car (say a Discovery) in inappropriate weather (say heavy rain) cruising at a steady 95mph irrespective of traffic around him.

But only one will make the headlines and be branded a "potential killer" and lose his licence and be threatened with jail if caught.

Have to say, I'm not arguing that this guy doing 145mph should have been waved on his way with an indulgent smile, its just this natural assumption that he must be a homicidal maniac regardless of any circumstances that gets to me.

I'm not saying he's not potentially dangerous, I'm saying that there is potentially more dangerous driving practices going on all day long that never raise an eyebrow.

People need to get over this fixation of speed being the only measure of danger and look at the whole picture.

I personally feel a lot happier about someone capable in an appropriate car in appropriate conditions having a quick burn up to 145mph than I do about matey in the Discovery six inches from my rear bumper at 70mph in the rain cos I know that if I have to anchor up hard he'll sail straight through me. Now thats dangerous but no one seems bothered, preferring headline grabbing numbers that in isolation are meaningless in judging the actual threat.

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I think a lot is down to the circumstances.

On an otherwise empty stretch of road, with good conditions and good visibility, high speeds are not inherently unsafe. Colin's argument about kinetic energy is well put, most people don't realise that doubling speed more than doubles stopping distance by a significant margin. But, so long as the driver is able to see that his stopping distance is clear and nothing is potentially going to change that, is he unsafe to drive within those parameters?

I think it's entirely possible to drive at high speed and not pose a danger to others, but only under certain conditions. Driving on the autobahn was a real mind-opener, getting up to over 170mph indicated was easy in the W12, it didn't require much run of a up at all. I didn't keep it up for more than 10 seconds, and at no time was I unable to see that I could stop or slow down to avoid any potential obstacle in front of me. Drivers can and do cut into the left-hand lane suddenly, but as a driver you need to be aware of that, look for the "body language" of other cars that suggests they might do that, anticipate upcoming hazards and adjust your speed before it becomes an actual obstruction. You always need to ask yourself the "what if" question and be prepared for the situation.

It can be done, police drivers do it. It requires concentration and utmost attention to everything around you, and that level of intense driving can't be maintained for long, probably a few minutes at most. It's a world of difference from doing several hundred miles at 70 or 100mph where your concentration can't be maintained for that period of time.

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Told you guys that the roads down here are quick 169144-ok.gif

None of this slow city traffic bollocks grin.gif

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Ok so what happens if at 145mph you have a blowout, flip the car, and end up flying down the otherside of the road towards oncoming traffic?

What happens if the same happens at 70mph?

I do not agree that he should be branded a maniac.

I do believe however that for driving at twice the limit he should be dealt with simply because it's a serious breach of the law.

Whether the law is a good or bad one is not for debating - it's the law, and he broke it severely.

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[ QUOTE ]

Ok so what happens if at 145mph you have a blowout, flip the car, and end up flying down the otherside of the road towards oncoming traffic? <font color="red">err.. die?? </font>

What happens if the same happens at 70mph?

I do not agree that he should be branded a manian.

I do believe however that for driving at twice the limit he should be dealt with simply because it's a serious breach of the law.

Whether the law is a good or bad one is not for debating - it's the law, and he broke it severely.

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We've had this before.. there are no 'degree's' of law breaking... you either are above 70mph or below it.. if you are travelling at 71mph you are breaking the law cool.gif

He (or she!) will probably get time for that. or at least a big ban.. which is bollocks in my opinion.

Dave

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I agree with Dave, its probably dangerous driving with excessive speed as a minimum which is a criminal conviction so it carries a custodial option when sentencing, along with comunity service, probation or seriously big fine.

Personnally most joyriders dont do time for first offence, so this guy shouldnt, but he probably will, but then again speeding is far far more serious than stealing a car, driving it dangerously through streets in built up areas, perhaps theft of petrol or ramraiding as well so he deserves all he gets......British Justice.

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[ QUOTE ]

We've had this before.. there are no 'degree's' of law breaking... you either are above 70mph or below it.. if you are travelling at 71mph you are breaking the law

[/ QUOTE ]

Although technically that is correct, depending on the severity of the crime you will be dealt with differently, as this case shows.

For example if you are caught doing 88mph, you'll probably get 3 points and a fine. If you are caught doing 110mph, you will probably get banned. If you are caught doing 190mph, you probably will go to prison.

Once you have broken the law, there ARE degrees of severity, and consequently different degrees of punishment relative to this severity.

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[ QUOTE ]

I agree with Dave, its probably dangerous driving with excessive speed as a minimum which is a criminal conviction so it carries a custodial option when sentencing, along with comunity service, probation or seriously big fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed, it was mentioned in the report that he could face a prison sentance.

This on the same day that it was reported that a doctor who downloaded nearly 4,000 child porn images wouldn't even lose his job (although he'd be stopped from seeing anyone under the age of 16 for two years! ROLLEY~14.GIF)

Odd sense of priorities in this country... Flush.gif

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[ QUOTE ]

Personnally most joyriders dont do time for first offence, so this guy shouldnt, but he probably will, but then again speeding is far far more serious than stealing a car, driving it dangerously through streets in built up areas, perhaps theft of petrol or ramraiding as well so he deserves all he gets......British Justice.

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Gotta say, i agree SK, there are far worse car crimes going on, but id say this guy will be made an example of, which is a bit silly, when joyriders do far far worse every day, and just get aloud out to do it again.

Id like to know the cirumstances he was caught in, to pass further judgement.

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[ QUOTE ]

interesting point, it was a victimless 'crime'

[/ QUOTE ]

Very good point... but then again if he had crashed/killed, he'd be up for manslaughter/murder/etc.

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and 30 people a year are killed by speeding police cars - one every two weeks

Bet they will charge with dangerous driving - sure that carries a jail sentence

This is why track days are now so popular ??

Not necessarily Satan, 16 year girl killed in Bracknell by allegedly joy rider in a Skyline, doimg little more than 45ish in a 40 limit ( just off a small roundabout - even a skyline couldn't have gained that much speed that quickly)

Think he's been charged some six months later with causing death by dangerous driving, not manslaughter

Actually what it is is irrelevant -- girl remains dead and it is unlikely to deter others.

Too many die on the roads and get away with careless driving charge koz it is easy to get a conviction.

I killed a blackbird years ago and felt bad for days afterwards !

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145 mph in dual carriage way? My goodness what was he thinking of? i have done 110 once and my life flashed before my eyes and in one split of a second i saw my little boy fatherless. its shocking really! suicide.gif

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