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MkV GTi

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Hope you don't think Im being rude at any point - wouldn't want to fall out with anyone being a newbie and all grin.gif

Cheers,

Ross.

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Absolutely not at all! beerchug.gif

Debates like this are what these forums are all about. 169144-ok.gif

You've given your opinion and you've backed it up with your reasons, same as I have.

Exactly as it should be. smile.gif

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IMHO VW are taking the Flush.gif

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Original A3 T Sport was £19,000 back at launch and that didn't have air con, cd or leather. GTi is a bargain is you keep a cool head and avoid the options list. Obviously some must haves like those wheels and pearl, but sunroof and leather at that price?

Ian C shocked.gif

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Look at it that way and the new GTI is a veritable bargain!

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I just remembered the GTI advert from a few years ago... Where it follows time....it starts with the MK1 and ends up with the anniv. MK4..

What that advert showed was that the Golf had grown over time with the original customer...it has matured over the years and now we have a car that compete's with BMW's and Mercedes... It started life up against small Pugs, Fiats, Vauxhalls and Fords etc.. None of the cars it was against then ever matured to a position the Golf is in now.

What next for the golf...can it mature anymore?

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the Golf GTI is for someone who would have bought a 318i and gives them the opportunity to have a fun drive without sacrificing the quality, image and comfort of their Beemer.

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That's a very good point - as is Spence's above. TBH its not the way that i think of the GTI - but then again I am not in the 318i (company car or otherwise)position so i didn't see it.

I guess then, what we should be is happy, because they have produced a car for that particular demographic that also happens to be awesome to drive and is a real GTI - for people like us 169144-ok.gif

I also have to admit to remarking to MrsRossG 'I know I like the Megane, and I think the next Octavia vRS will be a bit of alright - BUT - I do fancy owning an actual Golf GTI' jump.gif

My middle name starts with an H. Might aswell stand for 'hypocrite' grin.gif

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I also have to admit to remarking to MrsRossG 'I know I like the Megane, and I think the next Octavia vRS will be a bit of alright - BUT - I do fancy owning an actual Golf GTI' jump.gif

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Think you hit the nail on the head there Ross! grin.gif

I personally wouldn't even consider a Renault when for about another 10% I could get a Golf (and thats assuming no discounts on the Golf, which from the sound of things may not in fact be the case).

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I don't think VW have a very good strategy with regards to their cars and I'll include the whole VAGroup in that...But I have to admit they do come up with some cracking cars 169144-ok.gif

Heres to another 10 years of Internal VAG conflict....

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Unfortunatley the GTI is not available in Burnt Orange grin.gifgrin.gifgrin.gif

Not actually allowed a new car until after my wedding...so by june next year I will have changed my mind so many times!

That's why Im not asking anyones opinion of anything on here yet. I will wait until the night before I actually order somehting!!!

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Not actually allowed a new car until after my wedding...

...I will wait until the night before I actually order somehting!!!

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Not a traditional wedding night clearly! grin.gif

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IMHO VW are taking the Flush.gif

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Original A3 T Sport was £19,000 back at launch and that didn't have air con, cd or leather. GTi is a bargain if you keep a cool head and avoid the options list. Obviously some must haves like those wheels and pearl, but sunroof and leather at that price?

Ian C shocked.gif

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Look at it that way and the new GTI is a veritable bargain!

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Sure is. cool.gif

Ian C

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Not a traditional wedding night clearly!

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yelrotflmao.gif

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Good job I got it for 24 grin.gif

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Yes but don't you have trouble at toll booths? grin.gif

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Only ones in this country tongue.gif

Azza, ( yelrotflmao.gif ) I brought the clio cup into the equation as being the closest modern incarnation of the original GTi concept smile.gif

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All relevant points, but it looks like Honda are going to ruin the GTI party anyway.

Anyone who has seen the latest shots of the new Civic Type R with 250bhp on tap will know what I mean.

£19k with everything on it - 17" standards and 18" options. Looks nice and I'm not a Civic fan (because all Type R owners seem to think they can beat anything....actually lads by beating the thing in your hands you're closer to the truth...).

£20k for a Golf? It's a Golf. Says it all. Not worth the money.

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All above points are well made..... but look how much were talking about this car. This is surely a good thing from VWs perspective.

The word is being spread, discussions are taking place, people are curious to know why the car costs what its does. Is it that good? Will I pop along to my local VW dealer and check it out? Should dare to take a test drive?

All questions that are no doubt flying about inside peoples heads on this fourm and others smile.gif

With the cars mentioned above, if I had to choose I take the Golf. I've owned a Renault and it was guff, the Type R is just to banzai for me, and the VW offers the most complete package, but...

a) It should come with 18" as standard

b) It should have top CD / Stereo as standard

c) Leather should be standard

e) All parts should be colour coded

Basically, for a Golf GTI I want more for my £20k. I don't want to have to fork out another £4k to get it up to the standard it should be - simple as that 169144-ok.gif

But, it will sell, people will flock to buy it, its an Icon, its part of many guys / gals driving history and they want aa part of that again, and with their 'adult' incomes they can afford it and we will see them on the roads very soon smile.gif

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I had an original Golf GTI. Pirelli alloys. But, even if I was in the market for a hot hatch, this wouldn't be it.

People move on and the brand has moved on too - VW's problem will be that the price when compared in real terms to the price of the original is now 64% more expensive!!!

And, it is still a Golf.

Jeremy Clarkson, as much as I like him, committed a cardinal sin on the recent review of the car - he reviewed it as if it was HIM buying one as a FUNDAY car - but in reality - he damn well won't because he wouldn't if it was his only car which is what it will be for most buyers.

However, there is a lot of light at the end of the tunnel because you can be assured prices will fall because of a lack of initial demand once the "never driven one" suckers have ran out for VW.

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In summary - the car looks like everything it should be.

The price looks like everything is included - and it ain't.

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In summary - the car looks like everything it should be.

The price looks like everything is included - and it ain't.

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Thats sums it up just about right 169144-ok.gif169144-ok.gif

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a) It should come with 18" as standard

Why should it? Whats this obsession with big wheels? 17 inch are ample and anything bigger will generate too much road noise. Leave the 18s on the options list where people who need the "bling" and will put up with the noise can pay extra for them, don't force me to.

b) It should have top CD / Stereo as standard

I would have assumed it has a perfectly good radio/CD as standard? confused.gif

c) Leather should be standard

Why? It's an option on a £30K Audi, why on earth should it be standard on a £20K Golf? This is a sporty hot hatch, not a Bentley... crazy.gif

e) All parts should be colour coded.

Totally agree with this, why do manufacturers still do this...? smashfreakB.gif

And what happened to "d"? UHOH7.GIF

Basically, for a Golf GTI I want more for my £20k. I don't want to have to fork out another £4k to get it up to the standard it should be - simple as that 169144-ok.gif

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We'd all like something for nothing. Fact is the Golf comes with air con, remote locking, alarm, immobilisor, alloy wheels, ESP, etc etc etc. All these items were either not available or extra cost on the original, and are free on the current car. Yet the current car is still "too dear" and "should have more kit". Don't get it.

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All relevant points, but it looks like Honda are going to ruin the GTI party anyway.

Anyone who has seen the latest shots of the new Civic Type R with 250bhp on tap will know what I mean.

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Thats like saying no one will buy an M3 ever again if the next Impreza is quicker. Totally different market. The Impreza will be bought by people who's only interest is performance, the M3 by people who want a more rounded car. Same with the Honda, it might out perform the Golf, but it simply isn't as nice a car.

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£19k with everything on it - 17" standards and 18" options.

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So another £1,000 for a Golf then? No contest, I'll live with the "mere" 200hp and the 147mph top speed thanks.

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£20k for a Golf? It's a Golf. Says it all. Not worth the money.

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£40K for a BMW 3 Series? Its a BMW 3 Series. Says it all. Not worth the money.

But you bought one didn't you...? wink.gif

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Very funny....but are seriously trying to say the M3 Convertible compares to a GTI in terms of value for money?

jump.gif

There is no comparison - and you know it!

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I'm making the point that to say "£20K for a Golf - never worth it" about the new GTI is as relevent as saying "£40K for a 3 Series - Never worth it".

The new GTI isn't "just a Golf" any more than the M3 is "just a 3 Series".

What the new GTI offers is a 200hp nigh on 150mph car with all the quality, image, comfort and practicality of a Golf.

In exactly the same way as the M3 offers buyers a 300+hp 155mph (limited I know, would go faster) car with all the quality, image, comfort and practicality of a BMW 3 Series.

The M3 is clearly a more extreme version of the humble 3 Series than the GTI is of the Golf, however the M3 is more than double the price of a "normal" 3 Series, GTI isn't double a "normal" Golf.

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I still think the overall point is missing...

..i.e. its competition is cheaper. To get M3 characteristics you have to pay more (please don't throw Impreza's, Evo's or Monaro's into the equation because they're laughable as an overall package as most know and I haven't come across an M3 buyer who considered any of them).

I think you've raised some very good points though - but £20k for a GTI?

Let me ask you straight - would you?

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I still think the overall point is missing...

..i.e. its competition is cheaper. To get M3 characteristics you have to pay more (please don't throw Impreza's, Evo's or Monaro's into the equation because they're laughable as an overall package as most know and I haven't come across an M3 buyer who considered any of them).

I think you've raised some very good points though - but £20k for a GTI?

Let me ask you straight - would you?

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I refer the honourable gentleman to my statement above:

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Proof of the pudding is, if I couldn't have a soft top and I had £20K to spend on a car tomorrow, then with the possible exception of the A3 I honestly can't think of a car I'd rather have for the money.

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As to the comments about comparing Imprezas with M3's not being valid in the Golfs case, I'm sorry but I disagree.

I wouldn't buy an Impreza over an M3 in a million years, even if it were a third of the cost, yet it offers (very) high performance motoring with four adult seats and a big boot, just like the M3 offers.

And the same goes for a Megane or Civic over a Golf. The basic parameters might be the same (hot hatch, four seats and a big boot, uber performance but still practical) but the execution of the Golf is in a different league, just as the M3 is to the Impreza.

I drove a Civic a fortnight ago funnily enough as a mate of mine is a Honda salesman. It was a sporty one although not the Type R. It was a perfectly nice car but it had nothing like the depth of quality that a German car has, and you having an M3 know exactly what I'm talking about. smile.gif

The Golf is simply a more expensive car than a Renault or a Honda, in all connotations of the word.

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Ok, some more valid points made by you there.

However, some years ago (3) my wife had a VW Passat 1.8 Turbo (the 20v). Its build was shocking. Its execution in comparison to a Honda Accord I borrowed for a week was poor.

Yes I know what you mean about German build - but right now Mercedes build is shocking too. Audi and BMW have it right - perhaps the Audi link means VW have got it right too by now.

I guess the only way I'm going to find out IF I was going to spend £20k on a hot hatch is that I'm going to have to get a drive of one of these cars when they come out. I can arrange that I think.

Then, and perhaps only then, can I truly let you know what I think.

In fact - I promise to drive every hot hatch on the same weekend and then tell you what I'd buy!

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VW certainly lost their way for a bit, the MKIII Golf was not a good one apparently. However thats more than the 3 years ago you mention.

When you describe your wifes car as shockingly built, do you mean in terms of trim quality and feel, or in terms of badly put together? Having owned a Honda I have to concede that they are amazingly well put together, but the actual quality of the trim I found cheap looking and feeling. Likewise the Civic I drove recently, nothing there I could criticise, just nothing there that was at all inspiring either. It was a perfectly pleasant car, but certianly no substitute for a good German car.

Back to the Golf, the MKIV was apparently a much higher quality car, but a bit stodgy (with the notable exception of the R32 of course). The MK V by all account mixes the quality feel with the requisite drivng dynamics. To be fair, I've not seen one but have read a lot about it (plus seen the Top Gear test of course) and as a Golf GTI fan from way back when they were proper cars, I find the apparent return to form very heartening.

Damn it, I'm going to convince you that £20K is a reasonable price for the new GTI if its the last thing I do! jump.gif

beerchug.gif

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It was both the build process and the trim quality on the Passat.

Honda interiors are generally uninspiring, I'd agree there.

But Golf's have never struck me as the work of someone with a limitless budget (far from it, they get the narrow end of the money!).

I'll let you know how the test drives goes when I get one. I think the M3 is safe though...

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