Audidude Posted June 8, 2003 Report Share Posted June 8, 2003 The other night I was driving quickly having just passed a guy who didn't want to be passed who then decided to boot along behind me. He was in a slower car and I wasn't in the mood to play with him so decided to clear out. In the middle of the countryside at night with no road markings on a road I knew from my cycling thinking I had hit the straight when in fact there was a tricky neutral camber R hander! Bad driving, missed the corner, pulled the wheel to the R and felt the car start to slide. ESP kicked in and saved this turkey - thanks auto engineers from at the very least embarrassment and at worst................. I've posted here before on the merits of leaving ESP ON for normal driving and only switching off on the track or specific corners intentionally. Now I'm convinced. I've never run off the road in 35 years driving but sure as eggs we will all make a mistake one day - fortunately for me my ESP was there to compensate for my bad driving. All other times I am, of course, a SUPERB driver like everyone else here ! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riz Posted June 8, 2003 Report Share Posted June 8, 2003 I`ve always had my ESP on, never really needed it! but once in the wet i powerslid the car around a round-a-bout and i couldnt tell if it was working it was a very nice controllable slide, drifted out about 1-1.5metres then my passenger yelled so i eased off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidicks Posted June 8, 2003 Report Share Posted June 8, 2003 My '99 S3 doesn't have switchable ESP, but even if it did, I think I'd leave it switched on - I'm sure the Audi electronics are able to react a bit quicker than I can !! sidicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prhim Posted June 9, 2003 Report Share Posted June 9, 2003 The only time I ever turn the ESP off is when I want to make a quick getaway from a junction in the wet. Sometimes if a wheel spins, the ESP can be a little harsh and you end up the cause of a temporary traffic jam. But once away, it's straight back on the with ESP for me....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonU Posted June 9, 2003 Report Share Posted June 9, 2003 I think the reason some people say they turn it off is because it can be disconcerting sometimes and they don't trust it. If you travel at speed along a road with both an undulating and uneven road surface, where the wheels leave the road surface individually and only momentarily it will kick in - or at least it has done on my S3 and makes it wag its tail a bit. Still leave it on though, cause I never really know whether its me or the ESP that has sorted the car on the few occasions when I've been a bit late breaking at that bend I thought I knew... SimonU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanS3 Posted June 9, 2003 Report Share Posted June 9, 2003 ESP is for girls and old men My first S3 didn't have ESP so i learnt to drive the car without it. you dont need it, its all in your head! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonU Posted June 9, 2003 Report Share Posted June 9, 2003 [ QUOTE ] ESP is for girls and old men My first S3 didn't have ESP so i learnt to drive the car without it. you dont need it, its all in your head! [/ QUOTE ] You must drive like an old woman then, that's all I can surmise. ESP is there for the occasion (which might never happen if you're lucky) when you get into a situation, by your own cause or because of unknown road conditions, when the car starts to go out of your control. There is NO way you or anyone else on this forum could possibly carry out the activities that ESP does under these circumstances, and if you don't believe me, get the literature and read about it - I did. We've all learnt to drive the cars without ESP because it's not usually active, but the less 'cocky' amongst us accept that there are potential situations where it might save our vehicles, if not our lives. Simon U Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woppum Posted June 9, 2003 Report Share Posted June 9, 2003 With great, great cars like the R32 , apparently ESP is hardly ever, ever needed. The reviews seem to say that it sticks like glue, and you would really totally be out of control to have to use it. I supppose on a wet road with an adverse camber it will prbably be needed. I nice bit of power sliding a round about would be nice in the wet, so just turn the bugger off in cool situations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidicks Posted June 9, 2003 Report Share Posted June 9, 2003 [ QUOTE ] ESP is for girls and old men My first S3 didn't have ESP so i learnt to drive the car without it. you dont need it, its all in your head! [/ QUOTE ] Given that I had one of the first S3s, it probably means it didn't have ESP. I thought it was just not switchable. sidicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonU Posted June 9, 2003 Report Share Posted June 9, 2003 [ QUOTE ] I nice bit of power sliding a round about would be nice in the wet, so just turn the bugger off in cool situations [/ QUOTE ] Totally agree. There's got to be some occasions when you want to induce natural car behaviour. After all, in those cases you know the available 'oh sh1t' margin, the ESP doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidicks Posted June 9, 2003 Report Share Posted June 9, 2003 I always wondered why having floored it around a roundabout, and feeling the back wheels sliding, there was no orange light flickering on the dash. I'd assumed that it was my peerless car control ensuring that ESP intervention was not required ! sidicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester s3 Posted June 9, 2003 Report Share Posted June 9, 2003 As with everything it has it's pro's and con's. Me, I turn the ESP off each time I drive the car, why? With ESP on I do not seem to be able to 'feel' the car, nor feel comfortable that at a point I am not in control of the car when it kicks in. It happened the other day, forgot to turn the ESP off when I left work and halfway home engaged a WRX. Good little run, came to a right hand turning, he slung it in, I went in tight (to cope with the understeer we get), in second gear @ 40 and the ESP kicked in big time , lost all power and lost quite a distance as he sprinted away. I was so pi**ed off with the ESP, I was amazed at what it took away from the driver and in my eyes put me in a dangerous position. Still each to their own I guess. Ta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veracocha Posted June 9, 2003 Report Share Posted June 9, 2003 I have just been to Castle Combe with Simon E, Simon and Duncan and we were pushing the cars pretty hard. I was riding in Simons MTM S3 and we turned ESP off. There were a number of occasions through a third gear corner trying to use quattro where ESP cut the power ruining the speed of the car. It was intusive on track and I find it intrusive on the road when pushing on as you cannot really predict how ESP will react to sliding (understeer) out of a corner. I definately agree though that it should be left on during normal driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S3Robin Posted June 9, 2003 Report Share Posted June 9, 2003 Guys, Having read the various posts on this thread it seems to me that there two scenarios being compared unfairly in my opinion. Firstly, ESP was never implemented on the S3 as a racing aid. If you race your S3 and push it to its limits, then don't expect ESP to help you get more out the car. It was not designed for that purpose. It is designed to assist you in regaining control of a vehicle which the electronics have determined to be in a dangerous situation. And very good at it it is too!. Unless you are a professional driver ESP is more likely to save your skin than driver skills alone. Secondly, for normal driving it must surely be a no-brainer to have ESP enabled. Why on earth would anyone want to switch off a safety feature which could save their life ?. A bit like saying "lets switch off the airbags because we never expect to crash". Anyone who says that ESP spoils the 'feel' of the car is clearly not driving 'normally' but pushing the car hard. In this case the driving style falls into the other category where it remains the drivers choice to switch off features in order to push the car to the limit. The definition of 'normal driving' being referred is not an individual's 'normal' driving style but 'normal' in the generic sense. So rather than debate ESP and it merits when racing against ESP and its merits when driving 'normally' wouldn't it be more sensible to treat them separately and debate them in their own context ? OK I'll shut up now Just my two-pennies-worth (.......OK more like a quid !). Cheers, R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaunty Posted June 9, 2003 Report Share Posted June 9, 2003 ESP has saved me on a number of occasions, mainly cos I'm a shite driver but that doesn't matter. The most notable occasion was at Buxton last year, I thought the road went straight on into the farm yard(! ) and I only noticed it didn't at the last moment, feck knows what got me round the 90 degree corner at a speed that by all rights I should have slid sideways into the farmyard at, I think it was ESP, it could have been my praying but I don't think so. ESP should always stay on. Why do we even have that switch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audidude Posted June 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 I thought this would kick off a nice discussion And I predicted the mix of comments too - from the "I'm the coolest driver in the world who can wup any WRXs arse and ESP is for Nannys" to the more reasoned rational responses from those less perfect like me who acknowledge that once in a while we may make a booboo. No-one can "save" a lost car to the extent ESP can - period! I turn it OFF on the track and for those fun corners when ESP can be a pain. As I am unable to predict just when I might need it I leave it ON at all other times. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester s3 Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Indeed a very interesting discussion . It seems that the majority is in favour of having the ESP ON during generic everyday 9-5pm driving and ESP OFF during track days. Mainly to ensure saftey to themselves and other road users, fair point. My only gripe is that there are a small few (me is one) that do not have the time to go to a track or to a controlled 'race arena' due to work and personal commitments. All we have are some very good country b roads to go down on, ones that we have been driving on for a few years and as a result know the road resonably well and the number of cars that could be there at a certain point in time. Here, I check, survey the road, decide and then yes I will push the car hard with the ESP OFF and ensure I can get the most out of my car during this short space of time, why else would I buy a 225BHP 1.8T Turbo with 4 wheel quattro drive S3??? I'll do 70 on the motorway and allow the BMW to zoom past at 90, my ESP is OFF I'm not harming anyone, but I bet his ESP is ON, who's more likely to cause any accident ?. It seems people have occurrences with the ESP when they themeselves the driver are pushing the car too hard and therefore do something which they then do not know how to react too, I'm not saying it's never happened to me but with the ESP ON you are comforted from this fact with the ESP OFF you can react, adjust and get on top of the situation. Fortunatley I have not had a crash in the past 5 years ( touch wood) and do not indeed too neither. I ain't no Schuey or Burns I fully admit , but I am a safe driver who uses his car effectively when necessary. , not at 40mph thru a school at 3pm like I saw some other Audi driver do (I bet he had his ESP ON) P.S The WRX wuped me, still I await the next time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domus Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Richard, the switch is there because ESP cannot understand snow. Just imagine setting off from your drive after a snowfall, 2 mph, slight slipping, power is cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopsta Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Have to say that if you drive the car properly (aka Drivetrain) then you'll leave ESP on and never have it interfere ! You dont exactly hang about on the course either See reviews forum for more info Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woppum Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Drivetrain looks like a good idea... if i get some free time i may give that a go. I like the bit where it says, 'avoid unwanted attention from the police' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 My previous A3 was the first car I've owned with ESP. I'd read about it but never experienced it. So when I got the car I took it to a huge empty car park one night when it was very wet and just hooned around feeling how it interacted with the car. Got to say, I was impressed. The car would start to let go and understeer, and it was like a big hand gently pulling the car back on line. I'm sure at 10/10ths on a track it might be intrusive especially if you want to go sideways, but there is no way a driver, no matter how good, can pull the car out of an uncontrolled slide like ESP simply because he cannot operate the four brakes individually of each other like ESP can. If I got it wrong on the road, misjudged the severity of a bend or hit split oil mid corner or some such then ESP can do things to help that I couldn't physically do. ESP cannot overwrite the laws of physics, if you are going round a 30mph corner at 100mph you're going off, no matter what. But for those "oh fuuuu..." overcooked moments it may just save you, your car, and the poor sod coming the other way. Driving on public roads with it off is irresponsible in my opinion. We all make mistakes, or find ourselves in unplanned situations (oil on road, or someone pulling out unexpectedly) anything that might help in this situation has to be all good surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanS3 Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 [ QUOTE ] Driving on public roads with it off is irresponsible in my opinion. [/ QUOTE ] WTF ? not usually one to disagree with anybody on here, but that comment is plain silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Driving on public roads with it off is irresponsible in my opinion. [/ QUOTE ] WTF ? not usually one to disagree with anybody on here, but that comment is plain silly. [/ QUOTE ] OK Dean, someone coming the other way round a corner at 60mph suddenly hits a spilt patch of diesel, goes into a slide, can't recover and slams headlong into your lovely Beemer. As you sit in the twisted wreckage waiting for the firemen to turn up and cut you out you hear the driver of the other car say to someone that has stopped "I wish now I hadn't turned the ESP off, the car might have been able to recover that slide before I hit that BMW". You don't think you might be inclined as you sit in the twisted wreckage of your once beautiful car to think to yourself with a whistful smile "Hmmm that guy driving with his ESP switched off was just a tad irresponsible" Not saying that the accident was necessarily avoidable even if it were switched on, but it might have been and I'd rather that other guy wasn't taking that chance, but was instead using all at his disposal in the way of active accident prevention systems. Wouldn't you? Of course you (or he) may never hit that bit of oil/diesel/black ice. You may never be involved in a bad car accident in the rest of your whole life. Probably won't in fact. Wear a seatbelt anyway though don't you....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanS3 Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 lighten up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veracocha Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Ari, the chances of that happening must be 99 billion to 1! I am sure Dean drives around with ESP on 95% of the time but probably takes it off for a fun drive when he does not want it to intrude. That is how I drive and I would not say it is irresponsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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