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Coincidentally I had a long phone chat today with a nice lady at VW UK about warranties and re-mapping. I had actually phoned about suspension mods but we got chatting and she had driven a Mk5 GTI. She was very clear on this:

VW (and I think we can say VAG and probably most other car manufacturers) prefer that you don't re-map/chip your car. In doing so you are taking risks which if something goes wrong under warranty and it is found to be the direct cause, then obviously and fairly the warranty is trashed. The real-world problem is that dealers are 'piggies-in-the-middle' because if they do the work under their customers warranty and then the parts are submitted to, in this case, VAG and subsequently found to be the cause....The poo hits the fan big-time! The dealer can lose his franchise at worst and at best can have to submit an application for approval before every single piece of warranty work. Naturally the dealers are nervous and are inclined to reject anything that smells of any ECU interference. There is no such thing as "undetectable"!! Some specialist can crack it just the same as a tuner can crack a code.

However, some dealers recognise specific tuners and will accept their work. MTM (QST in UK) is one such tuning company for VAG vehicles. Personally, in my opinion only I would only go to a formally car manufacturer-approved tuner. Without mentioning names that rules out a lot of tuners.

I would like to state that I stand to be corrected but this is what I clearly understood and I am merely sharing the info here. I am not slagging off any tuners.

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thanks for that red robin. In my case it was a dealer warranty as the car was bought second hand, but what is interesting is that vag recognise certain tuners. I would have thought it would be a complete no no for dealers to touch chipped ecu`s as a rule. We live and learn coffee.gif

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Careful!!

Can we please be careful what we state here! Re-read Robin's post, certain dealers WORK with certain tuners (because they make money!). As far as I know, VAG UK don't recognise any tuners whatsoever.

Remember, guys, people (just like Kite) will Google and read this forum without joining. If something is stated as fact (that is subsequently proven not to be) they might well take it as fact!

I can't remmeber whether it was Abt or Oettinger that had their product Tuv tested and then approved by VAG in Germany. I'm not sure if that relationship lasted. REVO have also been providing the technology for special edition SEAT models for the SEAT distributor in Greece. Of course, this is of little bearing to SEAT UK.

169144-ok.gif

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I can't remmeber whether it was Abt or Oettinger that had their product Tuv tested and then approved by VAG in Germany. I'm not sure if that relationship lasted. REVO have also been providing the technology for special edition SEAT models for the SEAT distributor in Greece. Of course, this is of little bearing to SEAT UK.

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I think you'll find it is OETTINGER, Mollox 169144-ok.gif

I'm going to sit on the fence with this one. But would like to add - If you haven't had a Re-Map people and are thinking of one - then just do it and stop making excuses and convincing yourselves otherwise............. smirk.gif

BUB wink.gif

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well said avus.

ok youve jsut spent £26,000 on a car and get it chipped. if the turbo lasts 30,000 miles instead of 130,000 its not the end of the world. look at it in perspective. if your the kind of person who gets a car chipped then your the kind of person who is going to drive your car fast. that means much more spent on servicing, tyres, fuel, wear and tear ect ect. im getting mine chipped in 2 weeks and look upon any additional costs as incidental. The car i got i got to have fun in, so if it costs me extra thats what ill have to pay.

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Careful!!

Can we please be careful what we state here! Re-read Robin's post, certain dealers WORK with certain tuners (because they make money!). As far as I know, VAG UK don't recognise any tuners whatsoever.

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....This is why I emphasised that "I stand to be corrected" - I was told quite clearly today by QST that they worked with a couple of specific Audi approved dealers and the implication was that they were consequently "approved". I apologise if I have used any ambiguous wording in referring to VAG vehicles. In good faith I was mentioning QST only as an example of tuners working with VW and Audi brands of car. Naturally, as UK agents for MTM, QST are exploiting the historical fact that Mr Mayer, founder of MTM, was an Audi design engineer.

But, while we are all scrambling over each other to find the safest surgeon to delve into our beloved car's electronic brain, I suggest that the most important information in my post is about warranty.

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Avus and Jay are right if you are prepared to take the risk and can afford to sort out any problems. There are so many successful re-maps on TSN members cars to indicate that the risks are not high, but they are there nonetheless.

Personally I'm not mentally ready to do a re-map yet. Also, I come here to TSN as something of a 'tuning virgin' and am keen to learn. What I find is everybody recommending their particular tuner, which is natural (I incessantly recommend Milltek! Oh, and the Mk5 GTI). With all the claims about undetectability etc etc it gets mighty difficult to know the truth. Every tuner I have met says he is better than anyone else or words to that effect....It seems to be a cut-throat biz like most others.

I've got to the point where I don't care two fecks about how many neddies are under my bonnet....If she does what I want when I want, that's good enough.

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Turn that sensitivity down tongue.gif Why do you think I suggested re-reading your post 169144-ok.gif

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...Oops! It's not Friday night already I hope! Us creatives can be a bit sensitive but actually I wasn't digging at your post, Mollox. I was addressing everyone in respect of what you had written. Easy to misunderstand.

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I know several tuners have looked into just such a policy but I think they struggled with the feasibility, the establishing fault part and the potential cost.

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Reminds me of the beginning part of the original movie Charlie and the chocolate factory, where Gene Wilder reads out that absurdly long contract, with an almost inifinite number of variables.

Really, all contracts in life are like this, and ultimately are there to protect the business as well as inform the customer.

Just look at it from their point of view, at the end of the day they are a business trying to make money, and i'm sure that there are people somewhere that would try it on and abuse that warranty. It is there to stop them, and so makes it even more difficult to prove a legitimate tune-related failure.

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If I've understood you correctly, keytone, it may indeed be difficult to prove tune-related failures at fault in truth but if a tuner had not done any 'surgery' in the first place then it is very straight forward and the dealer and car manufacturer know where they stand and can act fairly. I'm not against tuning - far from - but I think I understand the ECU originator's viewpoint when someone is trying take financial advantage of them for something they (the tuners) have done to the ECU.

In an ideal world, the car manufacturers would assess and officially approve specific tuners and everything would be above board and fair to everyone involved, particularly those of us who simply want to further improve our cars. Of course, the whole subject gets further complicated by territorial/national restrictions on what our cars are capable of and I suppose that it also potentially opens the door for wretched government authorities to control us even more via the car manufacturers - a horrible prospect!

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well said avus.

ok youve jsut spent £26,000 on a car and get it chipped. if the turbo lasts 30,000 miles instead of 130,000 its not the end of the world. look at it in perspective. if your the kind of person who gets a car chipped then your the kind of person who is going to drive your car fast. that means much more spent on servicing, tyres, fuel, wear and tear ect ect. im getting mine chipped in 2 weeks and look upon any additional costs as incidental. The car i got i got to have fun in, so if it costs me extra thats what ill have to pay.

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£28,000 actually..................ROLLEY~14.GIF

Jay, I think you misinterpreted my post.

My point was just because you get a Re-Map it doesn't mean you're going to rag the car to death. I don't envisage ANY problems with my car..... Why should I? I don't drive it like I've just stolen it - It cost me £28,000 , remember?

I've worked in the motor trade for nearly 18 years and believe me I've seen some horrors in my time. Most of which are down to just one thing – ignorance or driver abuse (the same thing in my book).

I Re-Mapped not to race everything on the road - I had it done to give the car just that little bit extra wink.gif and improve my ownership experience - It has 169144-ok.gif

How many of you look after your turbos on your standard cars? i.e Warm up - cool down ? I always drive off boost as I near my destination and try to leave the engine idling for as long as I can before I switch off (1 min if poss).

As for tyres and brakes the same applies - I see 2 year old cars with less than 20k every day that are fecked. Simply down to abuse........... smashfreakB.gif

So that's my rant over - It wasn't meant to be personal or aimed at anyone in particular beerchug.gif

I've said it before and I'll say it again -

No engineering will tolorate abuse - No matter how good it is.

Enjoy your Re-Maps chaps

BUB znaika.gif

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How many of you look after your turbos on your standard cars? i.e Warm up - cool down ? I always drive off boost as I near my destination and try to leave the engine idling for as long as I can before I switch off (1 min if poss).BUB znaika.gif

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....Well, I used to do exactly as you advise until I read on TSN others say that it wasn't at all necessary to leave the engine idling on arrival. This advice was given specifically for the 2.0 FSI Turbocharged GTI Mk5. However, I have always let the engine warm up by monitoring the temperature gauge before any 'fun' and this is still advised by everyone. I do agree with you wholeheartedly about the importance of not abusing a car/bike.

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agreed avus,

i do take care of the car but there are times when i go out for a country drive late at night, i do push it quite hard but never race people. a GTI should be designed to take fast driving thats what its built/designed for. most times however i drive sensibly and dare i say it, economically

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Driven chipped and non chipped and the chipped are always more fun grin.gif

I'm mechanically symphathetic and would not expect to have a problem.

I also had to spend my own money on it so do not intend to thrash it but have done track days in the past.

As far as the UK is concerned no tuners are officially approved by the people at Milton Keynes.

The tuning in Germany is different, TUV approval is necessary if you wish to use the vehicle on the road, and without problems with the Authorities ( prepared to be corrected - but that's my understanding)

Abt have supplied stuff for VAG and of course run cars in the DTM for Audi ( under contract i'm sure)

Geoff Everett , co founder of AmD used to chip cars for the people at Milton Keynes BUT that does no mean that he was approved. He also got the cars with problems, both brands, from the local dealer that the dealer couldn't fix -- I've seen them being dropped off and/or picked up - so an "unauthorised" person worked on them.......... but I bet there was never any comeback at the dealers.

My personal feeling is that if I chip mine then I'm on my own for most of the mechanical bits as I would not be able to prove they would have broken . I would expect my local dealer to help with some claims, after all the vehicles I've bought over the last nine years - but I wouldn't want to hold my breath - too long. Basically it is so down to the dealer.

The most enlightened appear to be Listers but you can bet that MK keep a very careful eye on things - profits come first !

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I don't think that Geoff Everett is with AmD any longer. I think that the German tuners are likely to be the best and your posted TUV info supports that opinion. Clearly yours is the best attitude to have if 'chipping' - I prefer the term 're-mapping'. 169144-ok.gif

Btw, how have you managed to get your TSN name in blue lettering?

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agreed avus,

i do take care of the car but there are times when i go out for a country drive late at night, i do push it quite hard but never race people. a GTI should be designed to take fast driving thats what its built/designed for. most times however i drive sensibly and dare i say it, economically

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There's nothing like a blast in the lanes - It's the only time you can really enjoy driving 169144-ok.gif

But people use the ' a GTI should be designed to take fast driving thats what its built/designed for' line with us at work.

There is a difference between driving a car fast with mechanical sympathy and driving fast while smashing the car to pieces...................

Trouble is some people don't know where the line is and just because it has a Gti/RS/VXR/etc badge on the back it doesn't mean they can give it all the Sh1t they like and then use the 'well it's a GTi' line when it breaks.

The fact it's a performance model means generally the car will need MORE looking after than its 'cooking' brother.

It amazes me how many people smash engine and gearbox mounts just because they can't do smooth quick gear changes smashfreakB.gif They come running back to the dealership crying 'well you should be able to drive it fast'........... SLEEP5.GIF

BUB NONO3.GIF

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My personal feeling is that if I chip mine then I'm on my own for most of the mechanical bits as I would not be able to prove they would have broken . I would expect my local dealer to help with some claims, after all the vehicles I've bought over the last nine years - but I wouldn't want to hold my breath - too long. Basically it is so down to the dealer.

The most enlightened appear to be Listers but you can bet that MK keep a very careful eye on things - profits come first !

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Chris,I share your thoughts entirely on this one. At the end of the day it’s all down to your dealer and the relationship you build with them – it’s human nature.Go in like a bull in a china shop and you're not going to get far. But treat them with respect and you'll get help (most of the time wink.gif)

Every day I see jobs going through warranty that should be chargeable. Sometimes the dealer just can’t be bothered to argue the toss. Plus they want to keep you coming back for the next one, two, three............

BUB beerchug.gif

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