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GTI vs ST...yet again!


RedRobin
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[ QUOTE ]

This of course is not a definitive conclusion about the Type R but last autumn I found myself being politely challenged by one on a fast dual carriageway with lots and lots of roundabouts. I didn't block him at any time but he couldn't pass me and then I decided to get much bolder in and out of the roundabouts and he got smaller and smaller in my rear view mirror. Perhaps he wasn't trying as hard as he could, perhaps he assumed I had much more power than I have - those quads look pretty aggressive. Anyway, I've never driven one and my little story is pretty insignificant and just a fun memory. I can't wait to go to that same neck of the woods again now I have the suspension mods.

[/ QUOTE ]

I highly suspect he wasn't trying.

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Performance times from EVO :

Acceleration

--------- ST --- GTi

0-30 --- 2.7 --- 2.8

0-40 --- 4.0 --- 5.0

0-50 --- 5.2 --- 5.2

0-60 --- 6.7 --- 6.7

0-70 --- 8.7 --- 9.0

0-80 -- 10.7 -- 11.2

0-90 -- 13.3 -- 14.5

0-100 - 16.3 -- 18.2

0-110 - 19.8 -- 23.5

0-120 - 25.1 -- 31.5

1/4 Mile

--------- ST --- GTi

Secs -- 15.2 -- 15.4

Speed - 96.3 -- 92.6

In Gear Times

--------- ST --- GTi

3rd

20-40 -- 3.0 --- 3.3

30-50 -- 2.9 --- 3.1

40-60 -- 3.1 --- 3.3

50-70 -- 3.4 --- 3.6

4th

30-50 -- 3.8 --- 4.2

40-60 -- 3.9 --- 4.4

50-70 -- 4.1 --- 4.7

60-80 -- 4.5 --- 5.0

70-90 -- 4.9 --- 5.5

80-100 - 5.7 --- 6.6

90-110 - 6.8 --- 8.7

5th

30-50 -- 5.1 --- 5.9

40-60 -- 5.0 --- 6.0

50-70 -- 5.2 --- 6.1

60-80 -- 5.6 --- 6.6

70-90 -- 6.0 --- 7.3

80-100 - 6.6 --- 8.2

6th

40-60 -- 6.7 --- 7.9

50-70 -- 6.8 --- 7.4

60-80 -- 7.2 --- 8.3

70-90 -- 8.0 --- 9.4

80-100 - 8.9 -- 11.1

Braking

100-0 -- 4.6 --- 4.4

dst.ft.- 320 --- 320

Top Speed

Ave. --- 143 --- 135

West Circuit Lap

Sec. - 93.90 - 93.75

So, nothing in it to 60, but the in-gear times show where the ST's extra cubes come into play, and confirm my "butt dyno" feeling.

Interesting to note, that the Golf just pips it around the track, and gets the nod (just) from the reviewer (Henry Catchpole).

Si.

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Hi Red

My Gti is a manual 6 speed.

Had a test drive in the R32 last week and wasn't keen.

R32 may sound good but so does the Gti when you stand on its tail and in my opinion is just as fast. I suppose its down to the power to weight thingymbob.

So went ahead with re-map, now its an animal compared to before.

Will be adding Miltek and suspension soon

Long live the Turbo Golf !!!! Yipeee

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You can get some nice SC and turbo kits for the Honda VTEC engines, but you have to drop the compression ratio, as they run quite high - this is one reason they are able to get such high power levels from an NA engine.

The Golf FSI is quite high compression for a turbo engine, and it's the FSI injection that allows it.

Si.

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Also, don't underestimate the cost and hassle difference between a straight stage 1 remap and a turbo or supercharger conversion blush.gif

Stage one on a VAG turbo takes 7 mins and will cost roughly £400-700. Fitting an SC or a turbo will cost several thousand and may well take several trips back to the garage to put right as people have found out blush.gif

Hassle!!

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[ QUOTE ]

Just out of interest, is the Honda significantly quicker than the GTI?

[/ QUOTE ]

As a former Type R owner, no it`s not Red !

Yes, it`s probably a couple of seconds quicker around a track, but in the real world, on the road, where you sometimes go for an overtake within a split second, you`ll find that the GTI is actually quicker, as the power, due to it`s delivery, is far more useable.

I did enjoy my Type R when I had it, but I wouldn`t go back again to a highly strung, naturally aspirated engine that needs to be revved like that one does.

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I'd say in real world terms the gti is far quicker than the civic type r. My friend recently purchased a civic and i have to say at the time i was considering buying one as it worked out far cheaper than the golf. Many things put me off it to be fair (looks, interior, rattles) but not the engine which i thought was a peach. Honestly we both found it difficult to work out what the press were going on about in regards to low torque. At a time when we were both in cars with 120bhp, it felt very quick at low revs and blistering between 6-8k.

The cherry dropped however when i picked up the GTI last week. As quick as the civic is between 6-8k the golf feels just as fast at 2500rpm, and you have that instant kick of power through the whole rev range in every gear. When overtaking in the civic you need to be at 6k to make things easy and on a 50 mile run through wales he only went past 4k a few times because of traffic where as the golf, well we have power everywhere and thats where the cars are so different. The golf is really fast in everygear at all revs whereas the civic is only fast 6-8k.

I think maybe on the track it would be marginally quicker but as autoexpress found the gti is actually quicker straight line.

golf (manual)

0-60 6.7

30-70 thru gears 6.1

30-50 in 3rd 3.0

40-60 in 4th 4.3

50-70 in 5th/6th 5.6/6.7

top speed 147

BRAKING 60-0 34.3

civic

0-60 6.8

30-70 thru gears 6.3

30-50 in 3rd 3.9

40-60 in 4th 5.7

50-70 in 5th/6th 7.6/10.4

top speed 146

BRAKING 60-0 35.5

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Thanks encee and Ryan....I didn't get the impression that the Honda driver wasn't trying. He was sensible and didn't tailgate, at least not after the initial encounter, and that's the only reason I was happy to 'play' - open fast two-laner and good surface with hardly any other traffic. I reckon that the DSG gearbox was an enormous help combined with later braking into roundabouts. Ultimately it wouldn't have bothered me if he had burnt me....There's always a better driver and/or a faster car.

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Stuck it in S for the roundabouts. I only use manual if I'm not in a 'pressured' situation. Lazy I know, but the DSG system responds so well to either brake or throttle that it's one less thing to think about. I had a friendly situation on Sunday against a fellow TSNer in a re-mapped Audi side by side from traffic lights: I had three passengers and a full tank and he was solo and we were level all the way to his gear change....then bye bye, I was in front for the single lane. As you know, there is absolutely no loss of motion and the gearshift is both quicker and faultless. That was S-mode as well but I used exclusively paddles on the return journey.

On average I probably use D 60% of driving, S 30%, and Manual 10% at the moment but I have been mixing it up a bit more recently.

Back on topic, the fact that the GTI is the only one with DSG makes it a total no-brainer as far as I am concerned. I don't actually care if it's the fastest or slowest hatch....It suits what I like and that's all that matters.

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[ QUOTE ]

Back on topic, the fact that the GTI is the only one with DSG makes it a total no-brainer as far as I am concerned. I don't actually care if it's the fastest or slowest hatch....It suits what I like and that's all that matters.

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True, that helped sell it to me! Until another car company comes up with a flappy paddle device that come even close then a LOT of people will be getting the GTI over other cars! I've heard that Porsche are desperately trying to get their own DSG onto the market.

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It's interesting how differently people use DSG. I use 'M' mode about 90% of the time, maybe more.

If I had one complaint about DSG it's that I would prefer the shift knob defaulted to manual rather than having to be slid across to the left.

To me, 'D' is too leasurely and 'S' is too manic, VW really should have a second sport mode imho, one that sits between the current M and S programmes.

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Jono,

As you say everyone seems to have adopted a different approach to the DSG. Like you I drive in M about 90% of the time. I generally use the paddle for up shifts and the stick for down shifts.

I've tried S on a couple of occasions but it is a bit too manic for around where I live. Need to find so good roads.

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.....To me, 'D' is too leasurely and 'S' is too manic, VW really should have a second sport mode imho, one that sits between the current M and S programmes.

[/ QUOTE ]

....No, not for me! NONO3.GIF I love 'S' and have never understood other people's comments that it's too manic. And the ability to move between D and S would be lost with an inbetween. D is quite respectable in its performance in most A-road driving situations and you can always shift down with the paddle.

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That's a really excellent review, Driftgod 169144-ok.gif. Evo make it a fairly close run thing but give the GTI the edge. It's exactly as you say: "The choice as they say, is yours". I don't like the fact that you need to get to 4,000 revs in the ST before you get any real power delivery.

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That was not my experience of the NEW 2.5 focus ST it seemed to me to have more bottom end grunt than the GTI and excluding evo (as i have not read it yet) the ingear figures of mag reviews seem to back my 'feeling' up.

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