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DSG Driving...


RedRobin
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Much has been written about the DSG technology already but it's one of those features which has to be experienced hands-on if it's going to be fully appreciated by the individual driver. Furthermore, largely because there are so many combinations of usage, it takes serious time to become so familiar that it becomes natural and what I call 'fluid'. The DSG has taken several years to even begin to become accepted. Why? - Because most people think it's merely an advanced but conventional automatic transmission and that all of the driver involvement and control which manual gearboxes offer is lost. But this is a total misconception - No involvement or control is lost at all - It's just actioned differently.

In economy D-mode the car does drive like a conventional automatic, but a very high quality one and this mode is so relaxing and useful for traffic jams or stop 'n start urban situations. The manual mode is the same as a conventional manual except that gear shifts can be done either with the paddles or tiptronic on the floor stick or a mixture of each. But the difference is that you don't have to use your left foot or risk selecting the wrong gear (it can happen to us all, including the best) and that each change is guaranteed faultless and faster than any human can possibly manage. S-mode is similar to D except that each gear change threshold is raised to 6,700 revs so the resulting drive is very sporty. Additionally, when you drive a series of sharp right-angle corners with fast straight sections inbetween in S-mode in narrow lanes, you'll quickly become aware how the DSG responds directly and intelligently to your use of throttle and brake - It gets it right every time and leaves you to concentrate on when to brake, when to accelerate, and leaves you with both hands on the wheel in your efforts to stay on the road. In today's current road and traffic conditions, who cares how well coordinated your wrist and feet are.

But it gets even better! At any time you choose, you can override any of the so-called "automatic" modes by selecting a gearshift up or down using the paddles. You can decide to only use the manual mode temporarily because, unless you nudge the floor stick left into permanent manual, the DSG will revert back to its previous D or S mode after about 25 seconds of inactivity. Also, you can go through two or even three gears in extremely quick succession with finger flicks of the paddles. The maximum shifting speeds and shortest reaction times apply to all gear changes carried out in manual mode. If you prefer to use the floor stick rather than paddles you simply do the same without using the paddles just as any other tiptronic car. It goes without saying that you can drive in manual all the time if and when you wish.

When you use which mode and/or combination of modes depends on type of road, conditions, driving environment, and mood. This requires focus and hence involvement. The result is control. So, anyone who thinks that the driver loses involvement or control is, to put it politely....very mistaken! DSG offers the ability to both meander through traffic like an auto and blast down a B-road like a close-ratio rally car.

One extra feature is what is called "Launch Control". In S or tiptronic modes, the revs are set at approx 3,000(?- needs checking) if you simultaneously activate both the brake and throttle. As soon as the brake is released, the car shoots off. This manner of driving away, which conjures up images of Formula One, will leave drivers of manual vehicles shaking their heads in amazement when attempting to keep up.

All this results in an incomparably direct, dynamic and nevertheless comfortable driving sensation. In my opinion choosing the DSG option for the Mk5 GTI is simply a no-brainer.

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Having just read this I now regret not test driving a DSG. Admittedly I told the dealer I wasn't interested in an "automatic" but if he'd explained it to me in a similar way while I was behing the wheel of the manual (instead of waffling) he may have been able to convince me.

Red you should open a dealership! 169144-ok.gif

1,400,129 bike.thumb.gif

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SLEEP5.GIF

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....I was perhaps a bit harsh in my choice of words. I should have written that for me the choice was a no-brainer. If you were to read my other posts about DSG you would know that I am completely respectful of someone else's preference for manual. I posted this in direct response to two PMs I received asking specifically for DSG driving info. No insult was intended to manual drivers about any lack of brain cells.

cool.gif

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As with everything in life though, DSG may not be for everyone. Some simply prefer the "hands on" approach that a manual gear box gives them -- dropping a gear with a blip of the throttle and the perfect heal-toe change does bring a sense of satisfaction, whilst others prefer the "control" of a manual 'box -- that being the knowledge that you and only you are responsible for getting it right. Most people that fall in to either of these categories will dismiss the DSG, muchlike any other automatic gearbox because it doesn't appeal to them, and that really is their choice.

Those that embrace it, whatever their reasons, moreoften than not discover something remarkable -- the DSG is perfect match for the GTI -- a car that manages to be a jack of all trades, linked to a gearbox that pulls off the exact same trick -- whatever the road conditions, whatever your mood, whatever your needs, DSG seemingly has the answer.

It's quite simply the future of changing gears...

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Hi nutkins....Over the period of 40 years of driving I have driven both manuals and automatics. More recently I drove a Mk4 Golf manual before my GTI and an automatic BMW before the Golf. I lived and worked in Central London so the auto Beemer was great but I would have always preferred it manual when in the countryside and was conscious of that fact. The GTI DSG is the best of both worlds imo.

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DSG needs some long test drives plus more informative info from those sales people.

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was in a dealers the other day and clearly heard them state to a potential customer that "the Golf R32 also comes as an automatic just like the GTI". The customer had referred to "automatic" so the sales guy went with that.

Some work is needed on the VW sales side smashfreakB.gif - they would do well to read this and other informative TSN threads.

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+++ Niemad! You should have written your post as the last two paragraphs of mine! Theory can only take you so far and DSG needs some long test drives plus more informative info from those sales people.

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Feel free to copy and paste... wink.gif

I do agree about the need to learn the DSG though -- every car has its own idiosyncrasies and to simply spend ten minutes driving one and pronounce that it's "okay, but not my thing" just isn't enough. Anyone that can truly know whether something is right for them in that space of time must have the shortest attention span this side of a gold-fish. ROLLEY~14.GIF

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I do agree about the need to learn the DSG though -- every car has its own idiosyncrasies and to simply spend ten minutes driving one and pronounce that it's "okay, but not my thing" just isn't enough. Anyone that can truly know whether something is right for them in that space of time must have the shortest attention span this side of a gold-fish. ROLLEY~14.GIF

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The only problem being if you plan to keep the car for several years as I do, it's a big leap of faith in the hope that you'll grow to like it (being very much a manual fan). The fact I plan on keeping the car is why I'm struggling to decide. If only the manual box in the GTI wasn't quite such a sweet throw, I'd have no problem deciding and would go for DSG!

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Yep, the GTI has a superb manual box. I've driven a manual version too. Perhaps the deciding factor for you should be based on what kind of traffic conditions you expect to be mostly driving in over the next few years. City or heavy traffic would favour DSG, open roads might favour manual but only you can decide....Assuming you are even able to change your manual choice at this stage.

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The only problem being if you plan to keep the car for several years as I do, it's a big leap of faith in the hope that you'll grow to like it (being very much a manual fan). The fact I plan on keeping the car is why I'm struggling to decide. If only the manual box in the GTI wasn't quite such a sweet throw, I'd have no problem deciding and would go for DSG!

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I understand what you mean. I myself have always been a manual driver (although I have only been driving a modest 4 years), and I'd never even touched an automatic car before, yet my GTI order is for a DSG model. I, like you, plan on keeping the car for a good few years and was also unsure about whether or not I'd made the right choice.

However, as Red points out, it really depends on the driving conditions you face most regularly, and how much of a "die hard" you are. Personally I do enjoy driving a manual gearbox car, but I know that I'm not that good at it -- I still muck up some changes and my footwork could be a lot neater. So it simply came down to ease of use, and since I do an 80 round trip every day to work I wanted something that I could relax with and not worry about when I get stuck in traffic (happens far too regularly), but that would still allow me to have fun and enjoy driving: the answer was (again) as Red says, a no-brainer.

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Fantastic post Red, very informative.

Just to give my perspective I have been driving for approx 12 years and have always owned a manual (I have driven conventional autos and robotised manuals eg SMG, flappy paddles for short period of times). Before I ordered the car I too had a dilemma which gearbox. It would be a risk in choosing a dsg after being a hard core manual person (I say hard core loosly as I have never heeled and toed etc). I did test drive both versions and both were fantastic even though it is impossible to judge in a test drive. I find the manual obviously has more 'involment' in terms of pressing the clutch and physically changing gear, as a friend of mine once explained - He had an Audi TT manual and then changed it for a dsg when it came out. He was very impressed with the dsg citing it as a fantastic gearbox but he just preffered a manual as he enjoyed the physical act of changing gears and he became a little bored in the dsg.

But the reason I chose the dsg is the fact that you can have the benefit of an auto (especially being stuck in traffic) but with still the control of a manual. No other gearbox can do this at the moment, conventional autos are obviously very good until you need to overide the gear changes (take too long), robotised manuals are not very good in auto mode and can be caught out depending on how aggresive they are set up.

But the best bit is that you can keep both hands on the wheel regardless of which programme you are in giving your full concentration to other things and boy do the gears change so quickly!

This is my personal opinion and have currently done 700 miles. I am sure no matter which gearox you have/having/ going to have, nothing beats the fact that the GTI is a fantastic car, so go out and enjoy it!!!!!

Riz

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As with everything in life though, DSG may not be for everyone. Some simply prefer the "hands on" approach that a manual gear box gives them -- dropping a gear with a blip of the throttle and the perfect heal-toe change does bring a sense of satisfaction, whilst others prefer the "control" of a manual 'box -- that being the knowledge that you and only you are responsible for getting it right. Most people that fall in to either of these categories will dismiss the DSG, muchlike any other automatic gearbox because it doesn't appeal to them, and that really is their choice.

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Very well put I often drive a DSG and i miss this interaction from the manual car that i have in mine.

Its a personal thing maybe its just the feeling of going through the box but i still prefer the manual car myself.

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Just to put a cat amongst the pigeons as it were heres my little bit.

1. I purchased the DSG for 2 reasons, my wife is more comfortable in an auto and after a 1 hour test drive i was convinced.

2. If i had my choice again i would probably go for the manual, and my reasons are as follows.

a. The DSG is a very expensive option which you may or may not get back on the sale of your car mad.gif

b. I miss the feeling of going through the gearbox up or down, and before someone comments its not the same in manual mode on the DSG.

c. The DSG slowness to get out of first when cold annoys the hell out me

d. The jerky gearchanges when cold as above

e. When turning a sharp bend in a built up area the gearbox sometimes selects 1st making you feel a complete ass and throwing everyone else forward in the proccess.

smashfreakB.gif

The DSG is obviously a fine piece of engineering and there are times when you just want to bury the throttle let it pick the right gear and you are off like a scolded cat making a it a very safe machine to cover ground quickly, but i still miss my manual ho hum..............

bike.thumb.gif

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Very well put I often drive a DSG and i miss this interaction from the manual car that i have in mine.

Its a personal thing maybe its just the feeling of going through the box but i still prefer the manual car myself.

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That's the killer point for me, 'going through the box'. Particularly as the GTI has a real peach of shift (in my opinion). I think in my situation (I genuinly enjoy driving and changing gear even when half asleep on the way to the station in the morning!) the choice is becoming more obvious. Get a manual and spend the savings on a remap and FSD's jump.gif

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What does the DSG SOUND like? I tested a DSG and heard the 'burp' between each shift, which was nice, but otherwise I didn't think that the car sounded much like a manual.

For example the characteristics of engine braking noise and the sound when holding the car at say 4000 rpm, (but not accelerating) sounded different - quieter would be my main observation.

Trouble is I haven't driven a manual to compare.

Can anyone shed any light on this. Whats the DSG soundtrack like when you really get the hang of it?

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[ QUOTE ]

What does the DSG SOUND like? I tested a DSG and heard the 'burp' between each shift, which was nice, but otherwise I didn't think that the car sounded much like a manual.

For example the characteristics of engine braking noise and the sound when holding the car at say 4000 rpm, (but not accelerating) sounded different - quieter would be my main observation.

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It will never be the same because of the way the gearbox delivers the power (no loss). But it still has that great rasp under full acceleration and a nice blurp on every change cool.gif How hard did you drive it on the test drive mate, because when being tested to it's limits in manual mode, my DSG sounds awesome!

No dump vavle or whistle noises though - shocked.gif

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Hey LeMan,

I had the car for about an hour - without the sales rep, but with the wife... so I did give the car reasonable beans, but not the full lot.

Generally, I thought the car was quiet and if anything 'auto' sounding. As mentioned the gear change 'burp' was great, but overall I wasn't overcome by the sporting audio at all.

On throttle lift off, I thought the characteristics were a bit 'auto', (apart from the Turbo fizz), in that the revs seemed to die, whereas you'd experience engine braking with a manual.

That said, I am thinking that I just didn't crack it during the test. I reckon its all about getting the timing of the changes right, particularly on downshift, then the thing will start playing tunes.

Question: If you arrive at a roundabout at the top of a sliproad for example, so 90 in 6th down to 20 in 2nd, and you brake reasonably hard and late, do you space out your 4 down-clicks over the braking distance or fire them all off at/near the end?

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