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A8 Gearbox Problems


ronmcl
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Anyone know of general problems with A8 gearboxes?

The previous owner of my '99 3.7 Quattro had a new box fitted under warranty at around 60,000 miles. I bought it last year and it's now done 100,000. I'm getting clunking and banging through the transmission and my local independent mechanic (one of the good guys) says the new box is now on it's way out too. He also has another customer with an S8 who has a very similar story.

Is there a known problem with these boxes?

Cheers

R

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They do seem to be the weak spot of these cars.

One of the S8s on eBay mentions that the gearbox has been swapped and the fluid changed.

The fluid should be changed every 40K miles. Special Audi fluid at £1 per litre (9 litres needed). When I had my A8 with a very early 5 spd box, I had the fluid changed. Mine had done 170K miles, and was faultless. Sold it on at 200K miles - still faultless and smooth shifting. No clunks/thuds and jerks

You would be best taking it to an Audi garage for it to be done. They need to change the filter/stainers too. If they say there are no filters/strainers, shout at them. There are, and they need changing, as they hold all the swarf and stuff.

Good luck!

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This topic has been covered many times in this forum. Firstly, it is most unlikely that the fluid was changed at the last service if it was at an Audi Stealer - it is not a routine service item - they believe that it is a lifetime fill!!! As suggested by Cruiser647, the oil AND FILTER should be changed every 40 to 50k miles. Even if the oil has been changed by a stealer it is most unlikely that they dropped the sump, changed the filter (sometimes called strainer) and cleaned the magnets in the sump. I helped my son change his oil and filter on his 99 pre-facelift A8 4.2 at about 85k miles - the oil was black (rather than golden brown) and there was some sludge but no obvious particles on the magnets (box noticeably smoother and thump free after change). More recently we did the same on my facelift S8 at 45k miles. Once again the oil was black but the magnets were clean. No noticeable difference in mine after the change but it was workingly perfectly beforehand. The special oil is about £9 a litre and you do need about 8 litres if you drop the sump. Changing the oil without dropping the sump does not need as much because the shape of the sump traps about 1.5 litres. Even with the sump dropped you have not changed all the oil because several litres are trapped in the torque converter. Many people report that quite (apparently) major gearbox problems are cured by an oil/filter change. If the oil is very bad, it can be worth doing a second change (without dropping the sump again) to further reduce the proportion of old oil in the system. The details you need are here http://www.audipages.com/Tech_Articles/auto_transmission/autotran_troubleshooting.html and a very good guide (which we followed to do the job) is here http://www.audipages.com/Tech_Articles/auto_transmission/autotranservicing.html. The job does not require much skill if you do it yourself (as we did) but you do need 4 good axle stands to get the car high enough and level. You definitely do not need to remove any part of the exhaust system but you do have to take off some chassis cross-members on the S8. If you do take it to an Audi stealer the job will not be cheap the parts and oil come to about £120 and even with all the right kit and a car lift there is going to be about 2 to 3 hours labour at about £100 an hour!!! Many people have had quite low quotes, but I guess that is just for an oil change (say £60 for the oil and about 1 hour labour) but in my view that is a complete waste of money. You say you have got a good specialist - I would get him to do the job (most Audi stealers have never dropped an A/S8 gearbox sump) they prefer to sell you a new gearbox. Best of luck - please let us know how you get on.

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Richard, from your comments it looks like you suggest an oil and filter change as a matter of routine every 40/50k miles.

I'm not experiencing any issues at the moment with my S8, but have already put on 31k in the last year, and am still 9k off the next service. I've checked my records and did not spot anything to do with the oil etc at its last service.

I guess i can ask my stealers this morning (as its in for the michelin recal tyre change).

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Welcome to TSN Ronnie 169144-ok.gif

2nd on that Will, but I thought the fluid is reddish in colour? Just get your own mechanic to do it thats what I do and I'm right there keeping an eye on him whilst he's doing it all for about £75 + parts. The stealer just props the bonnet hangs a large resevoir full of ATF and lets it drain in to the sump through the filler neck. You'll never get all the contaminated fluid out in one go unless you go to a specialist transmission garage who'll use high pressure to get as much out as possible. I've got mine booked in for another change as well(precautionary). Good luck 169144-ok.gif

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Yes, the two cross-members (one steel, one aluminium) have to come off. I know this because I was the one under the car in question! If you're lucky Dad will post pics of them 169144-ok.gif

As far as five speed autobox servicing on A/S8s goes, ignore what your stealer says and change the fluid & strainer every 30-40k. The cost is nominal compared to a 'box rebuild or replacement and in most cases shift quality and torque convertor behaviour is noticably improved.

When I was looking into auto BMWs a few years ago the accepted wisdom seemed to be that the 'boxes would last forever as long as the fluid was changed every 30k miles. Dunno if this was dealer policy, but it was certainly the policy of enthusiast owners with well-used cars. I can't see why the Audi autobox should be treated any differently.

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Tell you what, the more I read here about these problems and people changing boxes after only 70k (sheeeite!), I have to think to myself, is it even worth leaving it 40k miles before changing the ATF? when in theory, done yourself is no more costly or difficult than a normal engine oil change. Why do we change the oil in the engine every 10k? I'm no expert on auto boxes, but I have stripped plently of engines, changed piston rings and big ends, rebuilt superchargers etc etc ... Surely, the auto box takes a fair bit of abuse? Especially if it has to convert 360 bhp! If upon an ATF change you "expect" to find metal filings/swarf etc, surely you left it too late! I recon that the stealers now advise 40k as a benchmark figure because they didn't want to appear to be so way off the mark by previously stating that the box never needed an ATF service. I might be going too far, but it would be interesting to see how long a box would last if you changed the ATF every time you did the engine oil? After all, what harm could it do? We all love our cars, and we throw plenty of money at them on things that maybe are not that important, maybe we should be paying this even more attention than we are now? With so many people either expressing how easy they found the ATF change to be, or, people saying how easy it was to hand over 4K (like me . sad face.) to a stealer, surely we need to find the equalibrium that is staring us in the face and get these boxes done more often rather than waiting for them to fall off the bottom of the car! I've probably gone off on one again, but to me this is now becoming very clear what the problem is here? crazy.gif

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[ QUOTE ]

I recon that the stealers now advise 40k as a benchmark figure because they didn't want to appear to be so way off the mark by previously stating that the box never needed an ATF service.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have yet to see concrete evidence (though I have heard some anecdotes) that either the dealers or Audi themselves have changed their position in the slightest regarding ATF changes, and I would be surprised if they did, because of the risk that it would trigger a deluge of claims from irate owners such as yourself.

If anyone has encountered a proactive approach from their franchised dealer (i.e. the dealer recommending an oil change as routine maintenance rather than simply doing it when the customer asks or in response to a reported problem) I would be very interested to hear about it.

As things stand, Audi can claim the ATF is "for life" because the 'box lasts for the duration of the car's warranty, and after that all bets are off.

David

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I think you are bang on there. 1. Admitting now that they do require servicing would be seriously bad news for the dealers. 2. The warranty period is the major factor ... maybe they dismiss the ATF change so that the boxes purposely fail so they can guarantee some fat service/repair bills in the future!

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[ QUOTE ]

... maybe they dismiss the ATF change so that the boxes purposely fail so they can guarantee some fat service/repair bills in the future!

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoa, I hope you checked there weren't any black helicopters circling overhead before you typed that... wink.gif

While I've experienced a pretty abysmal attitude from dealers I don't believe there is a deliberate intent on the part of Audi UK/GmbH to design in a point of failure. I think they may well feel that if they had their time again they'd make the ATF a service item, but with the current situation any failures are Someone Else's Problem. If they change the advice now it will most definitely become their problem.

David

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I'm not sure we should get too depressed about this. From what I've read on this forum and AudiWorld it sounds like most people who have these problems (like me) should be able to solve them by simply changing the ATF and fliter. Unless the problem has become serious most of these boxes have probably still got many, many miles left in them.

It does sound scarry when you hear of all those boxes that have been replaced, but it seems likely that many of them were actually still servicable and a simple oil change would probably have solved the problem.

Thanks again for all your help. I should get the work done next week sometime and I'll let you know if the problem gets solved.

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Just booked my motor in with QAS of Bristol for oil change. Specialist gearbox place that can do the high pressure flush thingy. They did not recommend the complete strainer and magnet clean so long as the gearbox oil was changed every 40k.

So as I (touch wood) have no obvious problems with the box at the moment will start with the flush and see how it goes.

These guys were very helpful, said they have done lots of S/A8's and also know the common failure points with their own solution allowing a repair rather than replacement. Dont ask me the details though, got very techy and I dotn know enough about auto boxes.

They also take a sample of the old oil and test to check for any indications of other problems (metal content, burning, etc). And you can watch the whole process yourself which I always find satisfying.

Total cost is £109 + VAT so watch this space and I will report back on Tuesday.

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