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Paddles or Gear Stick for DSG


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How many nights would you like to stay over in Germany?  

  1. 1. How many nights would you like to stay over in Germany?

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CMC950 - Dont wanna sound like an old git - but all this stuff is in the manual mate... worth a read...

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I've just asked my manual if it prefers Manual or Sport, seeing as they are both virtually the same, but it didn't say anything.

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But in manual mode the car will only change down when you're about to stall, in S mode the box will keep the engine at high revs. 169144-ok.gif

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Humm, but the point of being in Manual mode would be to control it and presumably keep the revs high anyway (if you were in a hurry).

Why didn't they just build the box so that 'S' is a button you press, for that mode, regardless of if you are in D or M then? (so its low or high rev auto with paddle or stick override).

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[ QUOTE ]

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But in manual mode the car will only change down when you're about to stall, in S mode the box will keep the engine at high revs. 169144-ok.gif

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Humm, but the point of being in Manual mode would be to control it and presumably keep the revs high anyway (if you were in a hurry).

Why didn't they just build the box so that 'S' is a button you press, for that mode, regardless of if you are in D or M then? (so its low or high rev auto with paddle or stick override).

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....S-mode is far better being actioned by stick rather than a button. In practice the ability to stick shift either way between D and S modes is invaluable.

CMC950, have you got your DSG GTI yet ? Our answers to your questions will make more sense when you have.

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If you are in a hurry and you floor it, it doesn't matter what mode your are in, "D", "S", or Manual, it will run to the redline before changing.

"S" mode will change down at higher revs when slowing down to keep you in the power band for a quick exit. While "D" mode will wait until near idle before it changes down.

Also if you don't floor the accelerator in "S" mode it will change up at higher revs than "D" but not at the redline.

In manual mode you can do what ever you want.

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What this thread shows is that DSG is a cool bit of kit which has a learning curve to find what suits you best as an individual in various road conditions. An added bonus is the engine and clutch protection safeguards.

I don't think it's a question of which between Paddles or Gear Stick for DSG, but only when to use either or mix it up with both.

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CMC950 - Look dude - Drive the car and pick the mode that you prefer - all there is to it really.

I usually leave mine in 'D' all the time and I switch to Paddles if I want a bit more control.

After a play I pull the right paddle towards me and go bac to Auto Mode.

It is great to have this facility.

Personally, I do not like the 'S' mode at all - it always feels like it is in the wrong gear - but again each to their own.

One thing I can say - this gearbox is much better than the one I used to have in my M3 CSL.

Enjoy your car mate.... and try all the modes

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M mode is a clutchless manual, operated by stick or paddles, with an auto-overide programmed to change gear in emergency situations (such as when the car might stall).

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CMC950 - not only will the box change gear and put into neutral/1st to prevent stall, it will also change gear for you at programmed redline (rather than redline on the display). It does this to prevent engine overrun damage with the turbo at max revs - so in effect you can drive all the time in manual on the shift, but the car will run like an auto. However it is a whole lot less smooth than in S or D and the changedowns can be unpredictable.....

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I agree Robin it is such an excellent piece of kit and really makes the GTI.

That thump from the exhaust when you change up on full throttle always brings a smile to my face.

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whhhuummmmppp... grin.gif

I LOVE that noise.

Plus if you rev the engine there's quite a nice over-run burble smile.gif

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Cheers for all the replies! Not sure why I'm being advised by some people to 'read the manual' as I thought we were discussing the relative mertis and pitfalls of the various options, according to the opinions of other experienced GTI drivers, whose views I am very interested in!

I have only had my car for 3 days and have obeyed the running in schedule, so haven't had it in S or near the red line yet, so some of this will become more relevant to me as time goes by.

Robin, I fully agree with your post that this discussion just reaffirms what a bit of kit the DSG is. I am being extra critical of some aspects, if only to generate some debate - but I respect everyones views, as is the spirit of this forum, enough said.

Could you explain what you mean by its essential that the shifts between D and S are with the stick?

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Robin.......Could you explain what you mean by its essential that the shifts between D and S are with the stick?

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....I have found that sometimes, and in fact quite often, I can be gently driving in D-mode but suddenly need to overtake quickly or exit a junction quickly (for example) and rather than find the right gear with the paddle, it's a natural action to move the floor stick from D to S. It's like selecting gear on a manual gearbox except that the DSG instantly selects the most power efficient gear according to whether you use the brake or accelerator pedal. I would find this action very unnatural if it was via a button.

By keeping gearshift controls to either the stick or paddles, VW have kept the driver 'in touch' with more traditional driving techniques imo.

I wouldn't want to be reaching for a button as well as a stick and/or paddles.

Changing from D to S and vica versa feels very similar to using a manual shift except that it's a whole set of different rev thresholds.

I hope I've managed to be clear.

Enjoy 169144-ok.gif.

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In that scenario it makes perfect sense, but its a scenario I wouldn't have imagined as I won't often drive the car in full auto.

I'm off to Leeds on Thursday, I'll have done 750 miles by the time I get there, and I'm calling that run in! So I'll have 250 miles to figure it all out on the way home!

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It really might take several thousand miles to become so familiar that it's natural. I think you may be surprised how often you do drive in D-mode....It's especially useful in towns and heavy traffic. You'll find the combination which suits you best individually.

Also, the DSG/ECU will 'learn' your driving style. Plus the engine will loosen up after about 10,000 miles and hopefully you'll never stop enjoying this car!

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I have had the car for 14 months now and have only ever used S mode on about 3 occasions, the rest of the time I have the manual D mode selected and use the paddles, I find it gives me the control I need and unless you have miss-shifted will always select the gear you are after.

As you learn your car you don't think about what gear as anumber you need to be in, a quick glance at the speedo and the rough calc of knocking the right amount of Revs per downshift will in conjunction with a good view of the course you wish to take give you the right gear anyway, this happens instantly as you develop with the car. Of course some will prefer I think this is a 3rd gear corner and others like myself will just find myself in that gear, either way it is all a matter of opinion.

The DSG still has the auto kickdown at the bottom of the throttle travel like most conventinal auto's but once again you should not use the throttle as a means to change gear as it is not as quick as a flick of the hand on the paddle.

For those who bleat on about inter action with the car through the gear box, unless you are a bit of a master of the heel and toe, left foot brake or a real demon on the brakes you would not be as quick around either a familar or definalty not as quick on a unfamilar piece or tarmac. Having driven both versions of this great little car hard on track and road I found the manual box not the best to hustle anyway so I would not go back to manual on this car if I was to get another.

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Been great to hear all the different styles for using the DSG. I'm actually surprised that the gear stick and inverse + / - have scored so many votes.

Certainly having all this choice really makes the whole driving experience more entertaining. I have found the different modes really suit my own different driving styles. If you just want to relax and make smooth progress D mode is great when in heavy traffic, or on the phone (handsfree)etc.

Rest of the time its manual mode and I'm still on the fence with regards to paddles or stick. But really looking forward to my drive home to get some more drive time and try both...which is the whole point I guess. I was surpised how rewarding the stick change was and it avoids going back to D mode when the paddles are not convenient which I was doing before.grin.gif

I agree with the posts on the "which gear am I in" issue. I have the midline and its not that clear to glance at on a twisty b-road. I prefered the old VW onboard computer which only gave you mpg etc etc if you pressed a button. If you did away with the need for this data to always have space on the screen the gear numbers could be bigger and clearer.

Ideal world would be a head up display option with revs and gear in the middle...that would be sweet jump.gif

I would have thought VW could invert the +/- pretty easy if they wanted, only software after all, or worst case some wiring.

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Robin ... how does the D to S for a quick overtake work with your foot still on the gas. Do you still get that pause as the DSG disengages the next gear up and finds the gear below. When in D mode it shifts up very quickly ..I'm often in 5th at 30mph, then I need 3rd to get past something and the DSG has 6th ready for me. I have tried a dab on the brakes just prior to the downshift and this sometimes helps.

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Re D>S, I normally stickshift from D to S just before I'm ready to overtake - In very much the same way as I might pop down a cog in a manual box to get higher revs and pull. If there's a pause I don't notice it....It wouldn't be any longer than a fast clutch release by foot.

Mine instantly pops down a cog or two as soon as I engage S-mode, encouraged by a bit of throttle.

The scenario you describe about being in 5th at 30 is perfect for slipping her into S. Of course you can just as easily paddle 5-4-3 very quickly by counting (and that's where a much more highly visible gear indicator would help).

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I agree with Robin regarding putting into S when I anticipate an overtaking manouver coming up grin.gif

However with the alternative I don't count 5-4-3, rather I hear the revs I'm doing and usually just blip down two gears, so from 6-4 or 4-2 or whatever.... the box always sorts it out if I'm wrong, and if the revs aren't enough, then I can blip down another gear 169144-ok.gif

the set up of the GTI really flatters the driver's abilities far beyond what a conventional manual box jump.gif

not only does DSG flatter the driver, it also permits and facilitates performance bowdown.gif

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