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Remapped GTi Economy


lazerblue
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I am currently considering a number of cars as my new purchase. Looking at a performance car that will also be a livable day to day proposition as my annual milage will be in the region of 20,000 miles a year.

2 solutions I am seriously considering are a Remapped Gti approx 250bhp & 270 lbft torque's and standard R32 250bhp & 236lbft. I have read on various tuners websits that remapping will give better consumption !!! not sure I believe that but maybe that's my sceptical side showing though.

I am interested in any owners who have remapped the GTi & the actual MPG before and after the conversion ? Also any reliability issues with the higher tuned engine ?

From just looking at the cars and reading various road test reports it seem that the R32 only advantage over a remapped GTi would be 4 wheel drive system and possibly V6 engine note.

All things being equal I am going to test drive the 2 in the next couple of weeks although obviously the Gti will be standard at this stage.

Look forward to reading TSN'ers imformed views

BTW great site 169144-ok.gif

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Hi Red,

Thanks for the advice, I have read quite a few previous posts on this ( many of them your's notworthy.gif )

If I went dowm the Gti route I would leave it a while to ensure the engine is run in correctly and sort out any initial problems that may but hopefully will not occur.

Was initially interested in the Morego conversion after reading review in EVO. I rang them and spoke to Niel who advised me to leave it until I have at least 3000 miles on the clock.

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GTI with higher power will also be subject to wheelspin in the cold and wet winters - the R32 at least provides better traction.

However the issues of bringing the car to a halt in a hurry in the wet and cold are the same!

It does seem paradoxical that tuners can claim improved consumption and more power for the same tune - usually when you look more closely, you can have the car remapped for more power or for more economy. You cannot have both across the entire power/rev spectrum

You could remap so that if you did, say 2000 revs, this had less boost, but over 4000 revs more boost - thus for long drives at 2000 revs you'd get more economy, and for acceleration at 4000 revs more power.

These claims can thus be strictly true - really depends on what the tuner is offering for your vehicle

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I agree, There was over 20,000k on my car since i got it remapped by superchips. Must say Im very pleased with it and since ive fitted the eagle f1's traction has improved enormously, even in the wet. As for fuel consumption, I dont know whether mine has improved since remapping but it certainly hasnt gotten any worse.

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The better fuel consumption generally comes from the fact that if you drive at exactly the same speed and acceleration as before then you'll need less throttle, it's as simple as that. If you decide to use your remap to drive faster, then fuel economy may fall. However, you're likely to see a change of +/- 2MPG at most, so it's hardly significant either way imho.

As the others have said, wait a while for the remap, you may realise that you don't need it! Or you may be wanting a lot more power.

Not wanting to start a GTI/R32 debate, both cars are cracking imho, it would appear that the GTI is the more "fun" to drive, but the R32 will give better traction, especially in the wet, and a glorious V6 soundtrack. However in the dry I'd expect (note EXPECT, I have no figures to prove it) a remapped GTI to beat an R32 round the track. Although imho it's never really fair to comapare a modified car with a standard car! But do remember that the R32 is a much heavier car that the GTI (nearly 200kgs iirc) and that the awd system will lead to at least "some" power loss.

I'm also looking at Morego, but may have to wait a while due to insurance frown.gif They apparently offer a £150 p.a. warranty that covers all items that VW won't in the event of a remap. This is worthwhile, but I'd use it as a backup. Speaking to a few VW dealers and chief techs, their opinion is that it's never easy to spot a remap (unless on road test) and it's often more hassle than it's worth to confront the owner and tell them their warrant is invalid. Therefore they quite often put the warranty claim through as per usual, as they get the money from VW and you get your car fixed. Obviously if the claim is huge then there maybe more investigation. However, most tuning companies are after prolonged business and really know what they're doing. Add to this the fact that cars are over-engineered and designed for muppets who never check oil levels and "forget" to service them on time. Therefore there is more performance to be gained from nearly every standard engine and having run remapped cars in the past, I've had no long term issues 169144-ok.gif

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Excellent post, yours Stevie, and one with which I would agree. Nice one. 169144-ok.gif

Lazerblue: I`ve had mine re-mapped mate, and fuel consumption is around 36 mpg at normal motorway speeds, and about 28 mpg around town, even with "playtime" thrown-in.

Not too bad, IMO, for a car that performs like this.

Depends what you want from a re-map mate, as we all expect different things, but all I can tell you is that mine is fantastic, and gives the GTI far more useable power........everywhere !

Mine has done 7.5k, BTW, and was done at Awesome GTI, Manchester, who I would highly recommend.

Good luck. 169144-ok.gif

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encee> why I thank you smile.gif Slightly OT, but just how much extra performance does it give you? My biggest problem with the GTI is the VERY linear power curve, especially with DSG...This makes it seem like you're not going fast, when in truth wink.gif So basically, does the remap make much difference?

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Steve, it will feel like, IMO, a proper turbo should, once you`ve had it done.

Far less lag than the 2 Scoobies (with PPP) that I had before, but less linear, and flat-feeling than the standard map.

Don`t get me wrong, it`s still linear, ie; you`re not getting an "all-then-nothing" feeling, as it keeps pulling, but it just feels like it should`ve done.

If VW had released it like this, then you`d have been able to forget the Focus ST, the Megane 225, and the Civic Type R all in one go, it really is THAT good !

The pull, in 4th gear, from pootling along at 30, NEVER ceases to amaze me. You honestly needn`t change down to 3rd for the overtake, as it feels like you`re in 3rd already,as soon as you press the loud pedal.

Don`t get me wrong, it`s not all bad manners and nothing else, as you can stroll along as much as you like; it`s just that when you unleash the ponies, it REALLY picks its feet up !

Mine`s now done just under 7.5k, and it`s getting madder by the day.

Love it ! 169144-ok.gif

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encee, ho much did the remap cost??

Also, do you really have to tell the insurers and VW dealers?? Are they ever really going to find out?? I had an ECUTEK'd scooby prior to ordering my MkV and it had a cunning little touch. Basically if you accelerated hard in 3rd gear and pressed the rear de-mister it switched to a low-power dealer friendly mode. Basically set boost to standard! Ingenious!!

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[ QUOTE ]

Also, do you really have to tell the insurers and VW dealers?? Are they ever really going to find out??

[/ QUOTE ]

....Insurers ? - Absolutely YES!!. Your whole insurance could be null and void if you don't and also you'd be black-listed in the insurance company network.

....VW dealers ? - It's up to you. Depending on the value of claim being submitted under warranty, VW in Germany may even investigate. A re-map must be shown to be the direct cause of a warranty issue but you'll have to pay for the work yourself first and then argue your case to get your money back.

Best to do at least 5,000 miles to settle your engine before any re-map.

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vsabelle> the remap will cost around £500 depending on where you go, but they're generally around that figure.

As RR says, you must tell your insurers, if you don't then you'll be driving without insurance and hence illegally. Yes the chances of getting caught are low, but lets say you kill an innocent family and the investigation finds the remap. You'll then be without insurance and facing huge costs. It would bankrupt you!

Unless you're young (like me) then it shouldn't cost too much either. Even at 23 it should only put about £300 onto my premium, which isn't much at all.

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Yes I understand and agree with your valid points. However I am only talking about an extra 20+ bhp to an already potent 200bhp engine. Its not like replacing a 1.2 engine with a 2.8 V8 unit. Lets be honest, most dealers dont even check your wiper blades never mind the revision of your ECU map etc. I suppose my question should have been more specific , is a remap detectable by any piece of software? Also, how much extra boost is generated (if any). I know the ECUTEK re-map software series was undetectable by subaru dealers. Cheers

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All you have to do is run a checksum of the eprom in the ECU. If a new map is present then this can be easily detected as the checksum will differ from the factory original.

It all depends on whether the VW dealer's diagnostic equipment can do this.

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[ QUOTE ]

encee, ho much did the remap cost??

Also, do you really have to tell the insurers and VW dealers?? Are they ever really going to find out?? I had an ECUTEK'd scooby prior to ordering my MkV and it had a cunning little touch. Basically if you accelerated hard in 3rd gear and pressed the rear de-mister it switched to a low-power dealer friendly mode. Basically set boost to standard! Ingenious!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Mate, IIRC, my re-map cost £600.

I think others have answered the Insurance/Dealer issues for you.

My own take on it is that it`s a resounding "YES" in relation to the Insurers, as it`s folly not to inform them, should it be discovered in the event of a claim. TBH, if you don`t inform them, then it`s a waste of time insuring your car at all.

I think Mikemod (above) is somewhat of an expert in this field, and, as he says, a re-map can always be found if the search is thorough enough. 169144-ok.gif

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I'm assuming the remap is detectable given the right equipment. The checksum is probably not an issue as I'm sure there are probably different ECU revisions published over time. I was told by my dealer that they cannot detect a remap with VAGCOM, but if the ECU was sent to Germany it most definately can be detected. That's all I was told.

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[ QUOTE ]

Best to do at least 5,000 miles to settle your engine before any re-map.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Is this your opinion or a technical one.

That makes no sense. Why let your enghine settle in at one setting only to change it. My last car was 'chipped' and thrashed from day one with no problem.

If I had had time my GTi would already have been done, but having done 3000 miles in the first month, she has been a real workhorse, and apart from the rear wiper problem has been trouble free

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Thanks for all the reply's 169144-ok.gif

Sounds on the face of it remapped Gti is the way to go If i decide on a Golf as I much prefer the looks and retro feel ( Previous favourite car I have owned is still Mk2 Gti with Interlargos seats ).

Also been to a couple of stealers trying to get get a test drive in R32 you would think I was trying to steal the Crown Jewels from their reaction mad.gif

One even said that there was a 2 year wait for a new R32 which I bol***s. Needless to say Gilders @ Rotherham will not be getting any business.

VW Dealers dont seem to know how to treat customers spending 25K+ on a motor, best Ive got so far is offer of 30 min accompanied test drive in a 3 dr Gti abliet with DSG which should be interesting.

In Comparrison BMW Dealer offered to bring 330i round to house and take me out for at least an hour with offer to allow longer unacompanied test drive later should I wish & Porsche Dealer said could take out a Boxster as and when just give them a days notice also offered to put my name down for a Porsche track day later on this summer with no obligation to buy.

Disapointing that VW dealers seem to treat you the same whether your buying a 1.0 litre Fox or a 3.2 V6 R32 smashfreakB.gif

Anybody recommend any good Yorkshire VW Dealers preferably with a R32 Demonstrator ?

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I had experienced the same level of help you'd been offered from my two nearest stealerships when I wanted a R32DSG test drive frown.gif

I can't help with the Yorkshire bit, but I did find VW UK helpline of assistance smirk.gif They told me of all the VW dealerships within 50 miles that were running R32 demonstrators and the gearbox type - then armed with this info I simply rang and booked a test drive (1 hour accompanied) for two days later.

The other easy option is to seach on the VW used car website for a used R32 or GTI or whatever using your postcode linky . Then ring any garage near you that's got the R32/GTI/whatever and phone and say your interested in the car, when can you see it, you'd want to drive it. The stealsman should usually then give you an appointment - again will get you a 30-60 minute drive 169144-ok.gif There is an advantage in that you are then driving a run-in car which has loosened up and runs like yours will with a few miles on it wink.gif

They are usually less precious about second hand cars and because you've seen it from the internet and have phoned the usually think you are more likely to buy and you get some service wink.gif

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Curiously having just repeated this exercise, I see that at least one VW dealership seems to be selling a 5 door R32 DSG in grey with leather (list £28050) for £26,995 - a decent discount for a car yet to be delivered with 50 miles on the clock linky - Beadles did sell some GTI imports earlier in the year

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[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Best to do at least 5,000 miles to settle your engine before any re-map.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Is this your opinion or a technical one.

[/ QUOTE ]

It will depend on which kind of remap you go for. If it's a simple flash then there maybe no problem. However for a custom remap it surely pays for the engine to loosen a little, otherwise you're effectively remapping a completely different engine and losing the benefit of a custom remap. Yes, yes, I'm obviously aware that engines take more than 5,000 miles to fully loosen and indeed will change in characteristic over the entire life cycle, but most of the changes would have occured by then, imho.

Besides, every tuning company that I have spoken too have advised me to wait at least a few thousand miles before remapping, for a start it's not a good idea to thrash a car on a RR when it's new. (although it'd be OK after it's run in...)

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