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So, is any hot hatch as good as the GTI at ExCeL


Simonl
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...in a nutshell no, not even close IMO

Had a good day out, as you would expect, but what a shame VW and Audi aren't there mad.gif really fecks me off TBH, i feel very VERY let down... BIG THUMBS DOWN VAG, POOR SHOW, and thanks for snubbing your second biggest market. mad.gifmad.gifmad.gif

Anyway, saw the new Focus ST. Now I really wanted to like this car, but was bitterly dissapointed. Now i know i didn't drive it, but i have to review on what i experienced today, which is asthetics, driving position and quality!

The leather on the seats looked like they'd been pulled out straight out of a Scorpio crazy.gif and the driving position was truely dreadfull. The interior plastics were ok, but it had to be one of the most uncomfortable cars i'd sat in all day. A big shame. The fact that it was swamped by chavs didn't help either grin.gif

Similar for the VXR, this also had what i consider to be a very poor driving position and nasty interior plastics. It did prove to me that the GTI has got a remarkably good driving position, and the plastics and switchgear when compared to these two are IMO in a different league. Mind you the VXR (like the ST) did look great from the outside, bit too Max Power for me, but still good 169144-ok.gif FYI The best birds were on the vauxhall stand!

Mazda MPS, was completely underwhelmed by this, poor plastics, very poor build quality and very flimsy. There is no way i could ever part with my hard earned for this.

Clio 197, I loved this car, well built, great driving postion, and very comfortable. Exterior has just the right amount spoilers and vents etc. My only critisism were the wheels, they are more SE than Sport. Some Black CUP alloys would have made this great car look sensational. I actually found it much more comfortable than the Megane and would easily have a 197 over a 225.

BMW 130i. Now i actually really liked this car. Felt very well made (as you would expect) was comfortable to be in and had a great driving position. The switchgear was second to none and the exterior looked very classy. It just needs to be a bit fatter on the arches (like the Z4 coupe), but then for the money, 30k+ I think i'd take the R32!

So a short review of the hot hatch comp. If you haven't been, it's worth a trip. It's very nice down by the river and good to see everything side by side. If you know anyone with a a BMW, borrow their keys, their drivers bar is by far the best. beerchug.gif

oh and sorry, no picts, forgot my camera smashfreakB.gif but i thought you migh t like this, found it parked up in the woods on Saturday tongue.gif there was a wedding near by!!!! grin.gif I spoke to the owner (or the guy driving it!), he has an immaculate Mk1 Campaign in green... respect 169144-ok.gif

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Interesting review. I'm trying to find my new car as I'm carless blush.gif

I do agree with the ST, what happened to the interior and it looks just dont do it for me. Ive also looked at the Leon FR, but the wheels look crap and the interior is from a 1980's car - I didnt think they could get worse than my old Cupra R, but they have shocked.gif

Couldnt do a 197 - had the 182, and need a turbo as I'm a lazy sod.

My big problem is finding a car to replace my old VXR. The Golf has a better interior, but my old VXR made less trips the dealers and had less rattles than my MKV GTI. Keep thinking of a GTI again as I'm putting it through the company and it has nice low emmisions, but the drop in performance from a VXR is quite large, therefore I would have to chip it just to get a VXR levels.

I actually think the VXR is a GTI, but the GTI more of a true GT. You want it for a relaxing drive, but not for a blast. Its interesting reading some reviews on here from people that think 240bhp is too much in a FWD. Ive driven the VXR with a remap and exhaust and it will handle it. Those that dont think it does need to look at themselves not the car grin.gif

A 130 M Sport is a good buy 6 months old - losses so much.

Volkswagen if they were forward thinking would be releasing the GTI with 240bhp now at todays GTI price. Its just not quick enough to be a modern GTI without it. The new Leon Cupra will really put it in the shade.

Jonathan

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Ah the Leon, forgot about that one!!!!!

TBH, it didn't really cut it for me inside, materials and build were poor IMO. It was a shame becuase it looked sensational on the outside. I always learn the same lesson whenever I go to a motorshow, you get what you pay for! 169144-ok.gif

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Good review leMan ... had been thinking about a visit ...doubt I will have the time.

Trouble with 197 (and old Type R) is that only really get performance at high revs and who really wants to thrash a car all the time. I agree that 197 is the best of bunch so far although I think new Type R will leap it ...especially if they get a semi auto to work.

VXR and ST are just too bling for me and in real world pretty sure a DSG GTI would keep up with both. Leon may just get ahead but once you hit traffic you would rather be anywhere else than in that cabin !

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[ QUOTE ]

Trouble with 197 (and old Type R) is that only really get performance at high revs and who really wants to thrash a car all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

But surely when you're giving the car a good thrashing you don't mind using the higher rev range. Despite what you read on internet forums, both those cars also have enough torque to make good progress without being wound right up. 169144-ok.gif

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I take your point about when you are thrashing about but just not sure i could live with it ... its that change down to find the power band thing. Don't you end up stuck behind a lorry in 2nd at 4K revs waiting for a gap to overtake frown.gif

I drove an Integra Type R and once over 5K revs it was fun but much below it lacked any real grunt. I assume from what I have read that Civic would be the same.

On UK roads I think turbo is more practical fun than well tuned VVT. 169144-ok.gif

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I take your point about when you are thrashing about but just not sure i could live with it ... its that change down to find the power band thing. Don't you end up stuck behind a lorry in 2nd at 4K revs waiting for a gap to overtake frown.gif

I drove an Integra Type R and once over 5K revs it was fun but much below it lacked any real grunt. I assume from what I have read that Civic would be the same.

On UK roads I think turbo is more practical fun than well tuned VVT. 169144-ok.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree! 169144-ok.gif

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Nice review. I totally agree with your comments about the ST, VXR and (of course!!) the 130.

Don;t go thinking of the 130 as a £30k+ car though. I was offered a brand new one with Metallic, Leather and a couple of other bits and pieces for "under £26k". I went for a 3 month old ex demo in the end for a couple of grand less, a bargain imo.

I'm not going to say anything about the looks!

I also agree that VAG not exhibiting is a bad move.

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Interesting review. I'm trying to find my new car as I'm carless blush.gif

I do agree with the ST, what happened to the interior and it looks just dont do it for me. Ive also looked at the Leon FR, but the wheels look crap and the interior is from a 1980's car - I didnt think they could get worse than my old Cupra R, but they have shocked.gif

Couldnt do a 197 - had the 182, and need a turbo as I'm a lazy sod.

My big problem is finding a car to replace my old VXR. The Golf has a better interior, but my old VXR made less trips the dealers and had less rattles than my MKV GTI. Keep thinking of a GTI again as I'm putting it through the company and it has nice low emmisions, but the drop in performance from a VXR is quite large, therefore I would have to chip it just to get a VXR levels.

I actually think the VXR is a GTI, but the GTI more of a true GT. You want it for a relaxing drive, but not for a blast. Its interesting reading some reviews on here from people that think 240bhp is too much in a FWD. Ive driven the VXR with a remap and exhaust and it will handle it. Those that dont think it does need to look at themselves not the car grin.gif

A 130 M Sport is a good buy 6 months old - losses so much.

Volkswagen if they were forward thinking would be releasing the GTI with 240bhp now at todays GTI price. Its just not quick enough to be a modern GTI without it. The new Leon Cupra will really put it in the shade.

Jonathan

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No mate, the Gti is quicker than the VXR and ST over a lap yet it has less power. Why? Because it has by far the best chassis.

And you reckon you can handle 240 better than most, even though you don't appreciate that? I think not.

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[ QUOTE ]

More fun - I'm not so sure, but I'll give you my verdict after my first lazy turbo car arrives later today.

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you kept that quiet... 169144-ok.gif

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I know, I was going to post a thread later when I've took some pics but I just couldn't keep it to myself any longer. I'm already looking at the clock every two minutes, even though it's not arriving until this afternoon. ECLIPSe.gif

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Keep thinking of a GTI again as I'm putting it through the company and it has nice low emmisions

[/ QUOTE ]

.... confused.gif Category 2 - That's the second most expensive road tax - now based on emissions. Nothing low about paying the feckin' govment another £190.

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Ah the Leon, forgot about that one!!!!!

TBH, it didn't really cut it for me inside, materials and build were poor IMO. It was a shame becuase it looked sensational on the outside. I always learn the same lesson whenever I go to a motorshow, you get what you pay for! 169144-ok.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi LeMans, was thinking about chopping my GTI in for the new Leon Cupra. Does the interior improve upon the previous Cupra R? that wasn't too bad. You're right, the GTI interior is cracking, but has far too many squeaks and rattles (including headlining squeaks) for my liking.

Saw a silver Leon Cupra on the M6 two weeks ago, but my wife was driving our car so we didn't keep up. It had a lovely big rear spoiler with a large vertical vent each side. Haven't seen this on the Seat website, perhaps it's a mod? a very nice mod, i have to say! smile.gif

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You're right, the GTI interior is cracking, but has far too many squeaks and rattles (including headlining squeaks) for my liking.

[/ QUOTE ]

....Any squeaks etc change from day to day but quickly disappear when you are having fun enjoying the car 'making progress'.

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I think you may have seen a Sport model fitted with the SEAT bodykit, rather than the Cupra Model (I'm assuming that you are talking about the new model!). I've seen one and I think it looks quite a bit more aggressive than the FR/Cupra.

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Thanks Martin, you're probably correct, it was the latest Leon shape, and did look more agressive than the Cupra designs I've seen so far. Cheers, Tony

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