loddrik Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 The new 5 I mean, in the matal. It came out on the 18th, haven't been out much due to jetlag so haven't seen one in the flesh yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CARACTERE 007 Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 yup saw one today in black,..very nice car but....he pulled out on me.so me had to slam on......arrrghh...new car same temprment! ...no seriously it looked very nice....not sure what it would look like in a lighter colour though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 I drove behind one yesterday, when I went to pick up the S8. And I've seen it before at the dealer. I'm somewhat ambiguous towards the design. From some angles it looks quite cool, and from others a bit so-so. The ass isn't too bad, but the way they designed the boot/trunk leaves a rather wide crack between the lid and the bumper, like it's dented and doesn't fit. (you probably notice that sooner on light colors). Anyway, it's definately better looking than the 7, but that's plain ugly imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidicks Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 I saw one at my local dealer when I was sorting out the spec for my M3. It looks better in the flesh than in the pictures, and there are some nice details, but it's certainly not a beautiful car like a lot of Audis. I get the impression that a number of the design details are there simply to be controversial, rather than serving any useful purpose. JMHO Sidicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidicks Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 I'm hoping Bangle gets to design the new M3 soon - if he f*cks it up like the 7-series then the current design M3 will be very sought after !!!! Sidicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 M3 will always be sought after, it's a great car! However if they manage to feck up the 3 as well, BMW will be in serious trouble... Oh, I don't like the new 5 series interior either. The old one was MUCH better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loddrik Posted September 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2003 BMW really ought to oust Bangle, he is definately taking BM' the wrong way, look at the new generation of Merc's to see how wrong he is getting it. Maybe he should work for GM US' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Lynham Posted September 23, 2003 Report Share Posted September 23, 2003 Im hoping my mate at work loves the 5 series (545) otherwise he will be getting an M3 convertible! no! not 2 parked outside the same office! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 Heres what I think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragdude Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 Same old, same old. You guys are stuck in some kind of styling rut I fear. The new 5 is a great car and a big step on from the previous model. I would never, NEVER, have bought the old model E39 5 series as it was a car for middle aged old men. The new 5 on the other hand is a refreshingly different design. When faced with the option of what to replace my A4 cab with I was at a loss. Gordon Brown forced me out of my X5 into the Cab (gee thanks Gordon, what a great move that was!) and the indiferrent handling of that car made me decided to sell it quickly. Step forward the new 5. In 3.0 diesel guise it is extremely quick, tax efficient and a stonking good drive. Throw in striking design and BMW reliability and it was a no brainer. Yes the design is challenging but the E36 saloon of 1991 was markedly different to the E30 3 series it replaced and provoked a storm of controversy at the time. The majority of other car makers quickly followed BMW's lead however and adopted more crisp taught styling - witness A4 (B5 chassis). So slag it all you like but this car is way better than any Audi A6 and it is highly unlikely that the new A6 will handle anywhere near as well. As for the fake wood Ari, have you looked at Audi's? I don't like (or have) wood in my car but Audi's wood is no better than that available in the 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 [ QUOTE ] the E36 saloon of 1991 was markedly different to the E30 3 series it replaced and provoked a storm of controversy at the time. The majority of other car makers quickly followed BMW's lead however and adopted more crisp taught styling - witness A4 (B5 chassis). [/ QUOTE ] Yes but the E36 wasn't actually ugly.... [ QUOTE ] So slag it all you like but this car is way better than any Audi A6 and it is highly unlikely that the new A6 will handle anywhere near as well. [/ QUOTE ] I'm sure you are right, but I bet the new A6 will look good and have a superior interior. There is no doubt that the new 5 is "cheaper" finished inside than the previous model. BMW aren't alone in this, Mercedes were going the same way, although are apparently improving again now. Audi do sem to get better and better interior quality though, witness the new A3 compard with the old, and the new A8 is stunning inside, not just to look at but to touch. If the new A6 is as good it'll be leagues ahead of the new 5. [ QUOTE ] As for the fake wood Ari, have you looked at Audi's? I don't like (or have) wood in my car but Audi's wood is no better than that available in the 5. [/ QUOTE ] Some of the Audi wood is terrible, some is OK. I guess the same goes for BMW. I could only comment on the wood in the car I was in and it wasn't nice. Like you I wouldn't have wood in my car anyway and to be fair BMW seem to offer nicer alternatives like metal look rather than the plain plastic Audi alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragdude Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 I cannot fault the interior quality on my new 5. I've owned two E36s (1 saloon and 1 coupe), an E46 coupe, an X5 and now an E60 530d and a Z4. I believe that gives me some credentials to talk about interior quality after spending around 7 years driving this collected assortment. I can categorically state that the interior of my new 5 is in no way inferior to any of the previous BMW I've owned. So the interior door opening handle is no longer metal. I think if you check closely you'll find the old ones were actually chrome plated heavy plastic. This mininmalist look interior is new and challenging to most people and is therefore very colour sensitive. Once it becomes more familiar I'm sure peoples views will start to change. I've attached a pic of my interior which I'm sure you'll either love or loathe. The leather is actually a dark saddle tan colour but the camera flash makes it look brighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragdude Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 And another view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragdude Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 And finally.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 [ QUOTE ] I cannot fault the interior quality on my new 5. I've owned two E36s (1 saloon and 1 coupe), an E46 coupe, an X5 and now an E60 530d and a Z4. I believe that gives me some credentials to talk about interior quality after spending around 7 years driving this collected assortment. I can categorically state that the interior of my new 5 is in no way inferior to any of the previous BMW I've owned. [/ QUOTE ] But how does it compare to the interior of the Audi Cabrio you had? (Honestly....???) [ QUOTE ] So the interior door opening handle is no longer metal. I think if you check closely you'll find the old ones were actually chrome plated heavy plastic. [/ QUOTE ] Very possibly, but it is the perceived quality that counts. Does the new 5 feel cheaper inside than the old one? In my opinion getting straight out of a previous shape into the new one, and then back into the old shape afterwards very definitely the new one feels cheaper inside than the old one. Whether it actually is or not is almost irrelevent. Add to that the fact that they've appeared to "decontent" it, so standard dual zone digital air con controls have gone to be replaced by a single zone non digital unit unless you pay extra... [ QUOTE ] This mininmalist look interior is new and challenging to most people and is therefore very colour sensitive. Once it becomes more familiar I'm sure peoples views will start to change. [/ QUOTE ] Maybe you are right, but I've yet to be convinced and as a buyer I'd have been disappointed enough not to buy. Possibly irrelevent to BMW as I'm not a potential 5 Series customer but much more relevent is my fathers opinion as a 3 times 5 Series customer who feels the same way I do... [ QUOTE ] I've attached a pic of my interior which I'm sure you'll either love or loathe. The leather is actually a dark saddle tan colour but the camera flash makes it look brighter. [/ QUOTE ] For what its worth yours looks a lot nicer inside than the one we were in, if only because your choice of leather brightens the interior and makes it more interesting. I'm not trying to trash your car I promise. You like it so it works for you and thats fine. But I've always had a grudging admiration for BMW, it used to be the car I was "always going to have one day". I've been put off a bit by the hordes of 318i's outselling Mundenos as the reps favourite (not a criticism of the car, quite the opposite the car is clearly a winner) which is one of the things that swayed me toward Audi, but the other is the superior interior of the Audi in terms of space, style, percieved quality and texture/touch, and understated exterior style. I'm afraid for me the new 5 only increases that gap... Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragdude Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 With regard to the quality issue between my cabrio and the new 5 I'd honestly say that they are on a par. There is nothing in the 5 that does not feel or look as good as the Audi. The Audi has a pretty basic spec level as standard and you have to spend a significant amount of money on it to get a half decent equipment count. Upgrade the seats, hi-fi, add in a CD changer, xenons etc etc. And in some colours the interior looks downright cheap and nasty i.e. blue dash with wood for goodness sake!! I spent over £2.5k on the seats in my cab alone - electric adjustment, leather, heated, sports seats - so I don't think you can have a go at BMW for decontenting the interior. Remember that the old 5 was competing against newer models in a prestige segment so BMW had to throw extra kit at it to keep it competitive. Look at Audi with the current A6 - same thing is happening. Do you really think buffalino leather is going to be standard on the new A6 - I DON'T!! Also look at it this way - in Dec 1999 I bought a 523i SE for an employee. It had metallic paint, leather, upgraded 17" alloys and auto box - total cost £31k. Today a new 525i SE to the same spec is only £31.5k. That is pretty good value in my book. Yes cheap imports have forced car prices down in general but it still says something that nearly four years later the equivalent car is only £500 more with added technology in it. As for your father not liking the new 5 maybe he is just not the target audience that BMW are looking at any more. Having said that my father has also bought a new 530d SE. He is 73 and has owned two previous model 5's and the previous model 7. He loves his car and thinks i-drive is simple to operate yet isn't at all computer literate and wouldn't have a clue how to programme a VCR. And finally as to the looks don't be surprised to see Audi adopting a more radical style as well with the upcoming A6. They know that they cannot just recycle the same old formula and are going to be introducing new styling cues such as the full height shield grille that looks frankly ridiculous. And look at the interior of their concept cars that is forward telegraphing their new design direction. The dash in the Nuvolari was awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 [ QUOTE ] With regard to the quality issue between my cabrio and the new 5 I'd honestly say that they are on a par. There is nothing in the 5 that does not feel or look as good as the Audi. [/ QUOTE ] Lovely alumiuium interior door handles on the Audi, plastic on the Beemer, much nicer electric window switches on the Audi, in fact the way all the switches move on the Audi, less shiny plastics in the Audi interior, nicer instrument lighting etc etc etc... [ QUOTE ] The Audi has a pretty basic spec level as standard and you have to spend a significant amount of money on it to get a half decent equipment count. Upgrade the seats, hi-fi, add in a CD changer, xenons etc etc. [/ QUOTE ] Are all these things standard in the BMW then...? [ QUOTE ] And in some colours the interior looks downright cheap and nasty i.e. blue dash with wood for goodness sake!! [/ QUOTE ] Personal choice though, thats why my Audi doesn't have a blue dash and wood. There are equally bad BMW interior choices, have you seen that scratched metal trim look!? [ QUOTE ] I spent over £2.5k on the seats in my cab alone - electric adjustment, leather, heated, sports seats - so I don't think you can have a go at BMW for decontenting the interior. Remember that the old 5 was competing against newer models in a prestige segment so BMW had to throw extra kit at it to keep it competitive. Look at Audi with the current A6 - same thing is happening. Do you really think buffalino leather is going to be standard on the new A6 - I DON'T!! [/ QUOTE ] Nah, won't wash. The old 5 Series always had dual zone digital air con, it's not an option they've made standard to bolster sales of an old model as (you correctly state) Audi have with leather in an A6. Simple fact is they've reduced the spec on the new model. [ QUOTE ] Also look at it this way - in Dec 1999 I bought a 523i SE for an employee. It had metallic paint, leather, upgraded 17" alloys and auto box - total cost £31k. Today a new 525i SE to the same spec is only £31.5k. That is pretty good value in my book. Yes cheap imports have forced car prices down in general but it still says something that nearly four years later the equivalent car is only £500 more with added technology in it. [/ QUOTE ] Thats just market forces, nothing to do with BMW per se. The Audi S3 used to be over £31K (!!!), came down to about £25K. The TT did somethnig similar. All the manufacturers had to do the same thing to stem the ever increasing tide of personal imports from British consumers tired of being ripped off. My 2000 A3 quattro was a personal import from Germany, my A4 cab came from the local dealer for that very reason. No point in importing any more now all the UK cars have been forced down to a similar level. [ QUOTE ] As for your father not liking the new 5 maybe he is just not the target audience that BMW are looking at any more. [/ QUOTE ] Well thats fine if BMW want to tell all their loyal customers "we don't want you anymore piss off we'll find fresh forward thinking young guys like Mr. Ragdude". Hell of a gamble though... [ QUOTE ] And finally as to the looks don't be surprised to see Audi adopting a more radical style as well with the upcoming A6. They know that they cannot just recycle the same old formula and are going to be introducing new styling cues such as the full height shield grille that looks frankly ridiculous. And look at the interior of their concept cars that is forward telegraphing their new design direction. The dash in the Nuvolari was awful. [/ QUOTE ] Agree things are, and have to, change. They don't have to be unaestheticly pleasing though. The new A6 may well be awful, who knows, but the new A3 and A8 are reassuring. Agree about the Nuvolari dash though, but when was the last time you saw a concept car interior make it into reality (apart from the TT I guess). Not always a good thing either, the Boxster concept interior was one of the best I've ever seen, the reality very disappointing in comparision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 personally i find them a barge and bland i appreciate things have to move forward and develop, but whate were they thinking ? its lost its lines. as has the 7 series. I much prefer the outgoing 5 series and thats where my money would be if a 5 series was to be on my shopping list (which it isnt) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragdude Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 Can't say I got too excited by the switchgear in my Audi. Window switches in the 5 are a pretty similar shape and design though. Disagree on the instrument lighting as well. The backlighting of the the circular surrounds on the instruments on the new BMW's is great. My point on the spec was to do with the fact that you were criticising BMW for decontenting. I was merely trying to point out that Audi are masters at mean base specs and certainly know how to charge for extras. Even BMW would blush at some of Audi's prices. As for colour I agree on the personal choice front but your original post on the 5 criticised the interior finish of your demo car as though your impression applied to all 5's. I could have found a picture of a hideous Cab and said aren't all Cab's disappointing. Your taste no where matches mine but I would not criticise you for it. As to the air con situation, the upgrade to full auto is only £490 which is hardly a deal breaker to the average BMW buyer. Can't say that I was chuffed by this myself but how often do you see passengers in BMW's who need dual zone climate? Other aspects of the spec have improved to compensate. Whilst on the subject of spec how many base spec 5's have you see lately?? Everyone upgrades some aspect of the car be it to the sport model or leather, etc etc. I'd guess minimum extra spend is around £1.5k - £2k for the average buyer. On your price comparison have you tried spec'ing up an equivalent model A3 yet?? Bet you'll get a shock there. I can't answer for BMW on the target audience but I believe they will be pleased that the new 5's appeal to people like me. I don't think they intentionally want to alienate people like your father but you have to look at it from a long term financial perspective. For the first time in their history they are replacing every model in their current range over a three year period. The 20 and 30 something generation are going to be their new customer base for the next 30 years or so. It is therefore vital that they get it right. From what I have seen so far younger people are taking to the new look far quicker than the older generation which isn't surprising. If it had been available I would have gone for the new 6 series with a 3.0 engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 my 2p got to admire BMW for going Bangle but for me they have gone a little too far I don't even mind the 7 series until you see the arse - and god those shut lines om the 5 and 7 are hideous - the boot lid that looks open all the time and the unnecessary bonnet edge - why? that said these attrocities are hidden by a black car so ragdude's looks OK the new 6 series deos look nice though - need to see one in the flesh and again I reckon I would only like it one or 2 colours the silver Z4 keeps parking next to me and an S2000 and TTR, quite pleased actually as I still rated them: a) Boxster b) S2000 c) TTR d) Z4 again maybe just the silver colout looks crap with nasty alloys and black hood the new BMW interiors look pretty awful - don't like the silver plank across it or the double bulge on top - enough to put me off BMWs whatever they look like outside shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragdude Posted November 26, 2003 Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 Interesting comments although I can't see someone driving an S3 going for a 5 series anyway (old model or new). If you'd asked me a few years ago would I drive a 5 series I would have given an emphatic no as I was only interested in roadsters, coupes and performance cars. However, things change and fortunately I can now have my cake and eat it so I have a 530d for business use and a Z4 for pleasure. Lets wait and see if everyone miraculously changes their minds on the 5 when the new M5 arrives. Amazing how a set of big wheels and pumped arches will change opinions yet the base styling remains the same. As for the Boxster comparison with the Z4 Adam, each to his own. There are definately two opposing camps on this one. I looked at the Boxster but you have to be under 6 feet to get a comfortable driving position and the dash is just plain plasticky, albeit very well built. By the time you add in the cost of cabin upgrades (ridiculous price for the full aluminium interior pack) and the other extras required to meet the base Z4 3.0 spec you are talking Boxster S money and that is just plain naff inside in base trim too. Same applies to the 911. Great engineering package but stingy equipment levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 [ QUOTE ] Can't say I got too excited by the switchgear in my Audi. Window switches in the 5 are a pretty similar shape and design though. Disagree on the instrument lighting as well. The backlighting of the the circular surrounds on the instruments on the new BMW's is great. My point on the spec was to do with the fact that you were criticising BMW for decontenting. I was merely trying to point out that Audi are masters at mean base specs and certainly know how to charge for extras. Even BMW would blush at some of Audi's prices. As for colour I agree on the personal choice front but your original post on the 5 criticised the interior finish of your demo car as though your impression applied to all 5's. I could have found a picture of a hideous Cab and said aren't all Cab's disappointing. Your taste no where matches mine but I would not criticise you for it. [/ QUOTE ] No, I was criticising the interior finish in terms of quality , not colour scheme. Yes I mentioned I didn't like the wood and thats a personal choice thing, but I stick to my original impression that bluntly they appear to me to have cheapened the inside of the car. Interestingly when we mentioned it to the dealer he did agree that "there are certain issues regarding the interior finish that we hope BMW will look at closely". It just doesn't feel as expensive or well put together as the old 5 or the Audi. [ QUOTE ] As to the air con situation, the upgrade to full auto is only £490 which is hardly a deal breaker to the average BMW buyer. Can't say that I was chuffed by this myself but how often do you see passengers in BMW's who need dual zone climate? Other aspects of the spec have improved to compensate. Whilst on the subject of spec how many base spec 5's have you see lately?? Everyone upgrades some aspect of the car be it to the sport model or leather, etc etc. I'd guess minimum extra spend is around £1.5k - £2k for the average buyer. [/ QUOTE ] I was merely suggesting that in an age where every new model seems better and better equipped this seems an odd move. Whether you actually really need it is neither here nor there, like a lot of things inside cars today, and whether it is available as an option is also not really the issue, the fact is it is something I think most people would expect. Agre they can all charge for options though, and there is no such thing as a base spec car. [ QUOTE ] On your price comparison have you tried spec'ing up an equivalent model A3 yet?? Bet you'll get a shock there. [/ QUOTE ] eh? [ QUOTE ] I can't answer for BMW on the target audience but I believe they will be pleased that the new 5's appeal to people like me. I don't think they intentionally want to alienate people like your father but you have to look at it from a long term financial perspective. For the first time in their history they are replacing every model in their current range over a three year period. The 20 and 30 something generation are going to be their new customer base for the next 30 years or so. It is therefore vital that they get it right. From what I have seen so far younger people are taking to the new look far quicker than the older generation which isn't surprising. [/ QUOTE ] Fair point and you may well be right. However it's not the fact that it is so different that concerns me, but the fact that (to my eyes) the car is inelegent, something that BMW's are normally well noted for is their basic elegence of design. [ QUOTE ] If it had been available I would have gone for the new 6 series with a 3.0 engine. [/ QUOTE ] Now I must admit, this is the first Bangle design (apart from the Z4 which works well in the right colours) of which my first impression was Ooohh nice! Apparently a storming drive too (as all the BMW range, 5 Series included, seem to be). Lets hope its a sign of things to come. Have a good weekend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now