RedRobin Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Whereas the OEM disc brakes are very good, the aftermarket big brake kit by AP Racing (owned by but run independently from Brembo) are imo outstanding. I've had the advantage of driving over 2,000 miles on German Autobahns and now about 400 miles on UK roads including twisties. All in both dry and very wet conditions. The brake pedal now feels much more directly responsive but there is absolutely no snatching or sacrifice of smoothness. The stopping power is greatly and very noticeably increased, regardless of speed. I've tried heavy braking on a clear stretch of dry Autobahn from 130 mph and was gobsmacked how quickly and evenly my speed was reduced, and it's the same at lower speeds. I'm sure that my KoniFSD and Eibach springs and Anti-roll bars are contributing. The weight per corner of the OEM brake kit is 15.10 Kg but the AP kit is only 10.6 Kg, yet the disc is a larger diameter and is thicker. Driving with these brakes inspires confidence in all braking circumstances. My particular set are designed by AP Racing for fast road use and track days. They fit both 17s and 18s but if you have a front tyre puncture you'll have to also additionally swop it with a rear wheel because the thin spare wheel won't accommodate the brake kit. AP Racing design and produce brakes for the Bugatti Veyron, and brakes and clutches for most of the major F1 teams, so they know what they are doing. I had the privilege of one of their Senior Race Engineers wanting to get his hands dirty and allowing me to be there all the time while he fitted my brakes. The consideration and attention to detail that these guys put into their products is impressive. Cleaning the calipers (4-pot) is a bit tricky because the alloy wheel always covers part of it and tolerances are much tighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petsy Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 nice writeup Red and, by golly, those discs do look the business. I am actually wondering if that disc should be on the other side of the car judging by the AP photo of this Subaru regarding the grooves orientation. btw does AP reccomend the 4 pot vs the 6 pot for the GTi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTiMK5 Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 [ QUOTE ] I am actually wondering if that disc should be on the other side of the car judging by the AP photo of this Subaru regarding the grooves orientation. [/ QUOTE ] The callipers on Reds are mounted on the front of the discs and on that Scooby they are on the rear, hence the reason why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petsy Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 hmm, isn't the whole idea of the grooves is to vent the brake dust and hot gases to the outer margin of the disc? as it is, the dust when the car is moving forward and braking is being directed to the inner part of the disc, not the most efficient. Additionally, I can't see why the placement of the calipers (front or rear of disc) should have a bearing on the orientation of the grooves as the direction of rotation remains the same. I'm happy for anyone to chip in and educate me if my basic understanding of this is incorrect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarmac_Terrorist Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Nice report Robin. They look the business too. I never realised that there was a connection to Brembo...however I notice that their name 'font' style is similar too. How do you go on now for dealer servicing of the brakes? Will VW service them in the usual way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamD Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Great review Robin I am hoping that I am as pleased with my brake upgrade in a few weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted November 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 [ QUOTE ] hmm, isn't the whole idea of the grooves is to vent the brake dust and hot gases to the outer margin of the disc? as it is, the dust when the car is moving forward and braking is being directed to the inner part of the disc, not the most efficient. Additionally, I can't see why the placement of the calipers (front or rear of disc) should have a bearing on the orientation of the grooves as the direction of rotation remains the same. I'm happy for anyone to chip in and educate me if my basic understanding of this is incorrect... [/ QUOTE ] ....I'm afraid that I don't know the answer to this and your logic seems sound. I have put my trust completely in AP and the Senior Engineer who fitted them. I'm certainly keen to know that my installation is as it should be. Functionally, the brakes are awesome so I don't imagine there has been a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woppum Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 They look very tasty! I have driven a Mk5 Gti with the porka turbo brakes (brembo) and they were fantastic. The Mk5 has such a powerful servo it is simply crying out for bigger brakes. Very good choice Red! Is a re-map coming soon? You have gone this far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted November 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 [ QUOTE ] How do you go on now for dealer servicing of the brakes? Will VW service them in the usual way? [/ QUOTE ] ....Hi TT > I checked out my VW dealer before going ahead with this (and my insurer) and they are totally happy to service my brakes - I merely have to supply my own Ferodo DS2500 pads and AP have given me a very well illustrated and comprehensive instruction sheet to pass on. My dealer highly rates AP Racing/Brembo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamD Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 [ QUOTE ] I checked out my VW dealer before going ahead with this (and my insurer) [/ QUOTE ] Was there any insurance impact ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted November 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Sam > No insurance impact whatsoever - The upgraded brakes are listed on my insurance records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted November 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Is a re-map coming soon? You have gone this far! [/ QUOTE ] ....Possibly/Probably, but not yet. I'm finding the car fast enough for the time being. I expect it may seem unusual or even strange to do the mods I have done and not re-map but I like to take my time and she does drive extremely well as she is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMC950 Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 An upgraded brake package like the one you have gone for Robin, will probably be a bigger return on investment, in terms of performance gained, that any of your other mods so far. Not suprised your chuffed with it. You'll be amazed how much time you make up on your laptimes at your next track day - not to mention you won't suffer from the brake fade syndrome of the standard brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted November 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 ....I actually haven't done any track days but I've always been aware how important brakes are on the track and now I feel my car is equipped with brakes to handle it with less worry should I ever decide to do any. I had an 'interesting' experience on a stretch of road I know quite well going into a roundabout on dual carriageway when I braked in the position I usually brake in with my OEM brakes and found that I was virtually at a standstill a fair distance from the roundabout! I can brake far later now and in one particular right angle bend I know the car seems much less unsettled under hard braking, not that she was especially unsettled before but just that she's improved. I've found that with each of my mods - Suspension, Brakes, Exhaust, Intake - Each mod in itself feels relatively subtle or even minor, but collectively they really add up to a significant improvement. You are absolutely right, CMC, the brakes are def the 'strongest' most obviously felt mod I have done so far - More so than I expected, but I'm new to The Slippery Slope and have never modded any of my previous cars and probably would never have done so if not for the advice and great collective knowledge of fellow TSNers. I think it was SiBurt who had the same AP brake kit on his Mk5 GTI and changed back to OEM for selling his car and was amazed how poor the OEM then seemed after experiencing the AP kit. When one day I offer my GTI for sale, I'm not going to be putting the OEM brakes back on first - I'm going to saying to anyone interested who questions the brake mods: "Please go and drive a GTI with standard brakes and then come back and tell me you don't want the brakes this car has fitted". Currently I have no thoughts of selling my Mk5 GTI whatsoever....She's far too much fun and ideal for my practical needs. Methinks I'm happily stuck in a VeeDub performance Golf groove for some time....And in the colour red . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petsy Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 so how much do you want for her then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted November 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 [ QUOTE ] hmm, isn't the whole idea of the grooves is to vent the brake dust and hot gases to the outer margin of the disc? as it is, the dust when the car is moving forward and braking is being directed to the inner part of the disc, not the most efficient. Additionally, I can't see why the placement of the calipers (front or rear of disc) should have a bearing on the orientation of the grooves as the direction of rotation remains the same. I'm happy for anyone to chip in and educate me if my basic understanding of this is incorrect... [/ QUOTE ] ....Here is a pic of SiBurt's AP brake kit - Exactly the same as mine - and his looks the same as mine re grooves etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s1brt Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Hi Robin, great report! I'm back in the fold now after a pretty turbulant time with work. As it turns out I haven't sold my car or returned it to standard, but I have recently driven a 'stock' GTI and by comparison the brakes were pretty poor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted November 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 IIRC, someone asked me about 4-pot versus 6-pot calipers. AP told me that 4-pot does the job on the GTI totally adequately. Also, as nearly 90% of braking is on the front discs and it's a major hassle to deal with the handbrake stuff on the rears, changing rear kit is a waste of money and effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted November 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 [ QUOTE ] As it turns out I haven't sold my car or returned it to standard, but I have recently driven a 'stock' GTI and by comparison the brakes were pretty poor! [/ QUOTE ] ....I got the principle right at least! Great to have you back, mate. And it's all thanks to you that I have the AP brake kit . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s1brt Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 I'm glad you're happy mate. Pete and the boys from AP are true pros and it's a quality product that they produce! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted November 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 ....Pete is one of those guys who clearly loves his job and who's got years of experience at AP as well. It was such a pleasure to see his attention to detail and hear him talk about why and how. Just a note for anyone getting excited about the AP service, Si and I were granted a special favour for help we gave them by having the kit installed by AP themselves - They don't usually deal with the public. You will have to use one of their approved retailers to supply and fit but that shouldn't present any problems. These brakes are def 'The Biz!!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 [ QUOTE ] AP Racing design and produce brakes for the Bugatti Veyron, and brakes and clutches for most of the major F1 teams, so they know what they are doing. [/ QUOTE ] Just a note: AP calipers fitted as OEM equipment to the current SEAT Ibiza Cupra range. Brembo's previous OEM fittment on previous models SEAT ibiza cupra R & SEAT Leon Cupra R. AP or brembos not sure whos at this moment also OEM equipment in some markets on the new SEAT Leon Cupra due next march. VW group fit them to there sporty brands as OEM. Looking good Robin soon there will be nothing OEM left lol, jk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted November 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 ....I guess it all comes down to money, but it's difficult to understand why a 145 mph turbo'd car like the Mk5 GTI doesn't have AP/Brembo as OEM, just as the new Leon Cupra will appear to have. However, I wonder just what spec the Cupra's brakes will be - Grooved disks? Braided hoses? Dot fluid? DS2500 pads? How big the discs? etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rs32 Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 they look great and sounds like they really do the biz Robin will hopefully have something similar on the R32 shortly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 [ QUOTE ] However, I wonder just what spec the Cupra's brakes will be - Grooved disks? Braided hoses? Dot fluid? DS2500 pads? How big the discs? etc. [/ QUOTE ] 345x30 iirc, prob normal hoses as braided are not liked by automotive companys hard to spot rubber hose problems. Fluid prob standard, pads who knows but are special for that model. Discs are normally stadard type not grooved, grooved and also drilled are known to crack with age so again not liked by OEM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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