RedRobin Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 As posted in the Tuning forum, Abt are now (at last!) represented by Weltmeister based actually at Silverstone Race Circuit. I have just had a long chat with their Technical Director about how they would approach re-mapping a 2.0T FSI DSG equipped Mk5 GTI which also has a Hi-flow exhaust and Cold Air Intake (mine). I strongly emphasised that I was particularly concerned about re-mapping a DSG car and that I also had concerns about VW warranty implications. Fundamentally, I was assured that I would be buying a Custom Re-map which was individual car specific. The car would be rolling roaded both before and after and their approach was to optimise for the individual car and not simply go for the max numbers. Neither did their re-map give any sudden bursts of power but was aimed at being smooth and progressive. A standard 200 bhp GTI would typically gain to become around 250 bhp with an additional 85 ft.lbs of torque. They consider the standard engine to be reliable up to around 285-290 bhp without more serious (and expensive) engine mods. Abt have a close relationship with VW in Germany and have TUV approvals. Abt Sportsline in Germany is actually a VW and Audi approved Service Centre. On the subject of VW dealer attitudes towards re-mapping there was a European Block Exemption Law passed in around 2003 which means that the onus would be on VW UK to prove in a court of law that a car modification was in fact the cause of an issue in dispute. In other words, you are innocent until proved guilty - Makes a change! This was also confirmed when I spoke to my VW dealer about the subject. I enjoy a very open and honest working relationship with my dealer VW Loders of Dorchester and they would be quite happy to service my re-mapped GTI. Furthermore, no doubt due to Abt's relationship with VW in Germany, any ECU upgrade fired in by the VW dealer could subsequently be given an appropriately updated Abt re-map match. Consequently I wouldn't have to return my car to standard performance before a visit to the dealer. I guess I wouldn't want just anyone to 'test' my car after a dealer visit though! My exhaust and CAI mods would be expected to return about 275 bhp and torque considerations would be made for it being DSG. Cost would be £549 all inclusive. Extra insurance costs? - I haven't asked yet, but probably the worst aspect of all this. Tempting, isn't it? Link to Tuning forum thread Weltmeister/Abt/VW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brabus Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 I tested ABT's Swiss GTI at the begining of the year. Some very nice pics too, want to dig them out RR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted November 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Link to Chrispy's earlier report with pics: HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richy Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Sounds good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRR250 Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Very nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHA Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Very tempted by that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_G Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 The good thing about it all is that your ECU program isn't lifted, sent to Germay, remapped and flashed in again, they have all the equipment, hardware and software there to do it on site. Including pre and post rolling road thay have quoted me approx an hours work for £659 inc. VAT. Should boost mine to about 380bhp and 345 ft.lbs without going for max performance. Just got to find the time and money now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oli Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Go for it you won't regret it. Mine was approx 245BHP/269ftlb and was more than adequate, and REVO quoted 250BHP, without the exhaust and high flow air filter - Just remember they are all a bit optimistic with their figures. But ABT have a good reputation, and a strong relataionship with VAG. When is it booked in for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted November 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Hi Oli It's the well established good relationship between Abt and VAG and Abt's reputation which attracts me. I've been waiting for Abt to get properly represented in the UK. I was slightly surprised that my dealer (Head Service Manager) was so accommodating but it makes all the difference. I want to get more used to my big brakes before I do another mod - I'm strange like that! Also, I daren't ask what it would do to my insurance premium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmx Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 85lb of torque sounds alot to me, are you sure that isnt 85nm of torque? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted November 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Sorry if I got that wrong, bmx - I don't know for certain. He def said ft.lbs but may have meant Nm. Either way, I feel confident that they know what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxyboy Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 i have dealt with abt before with my mk4 and they are very good....i wouldnt think twice about using them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippytwo Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Red, any idea what this bit on the Weltmeister site means, i.e. from what date were the new valves used? "Golf V 2.0T FSI 200 HP 230 HP, 310 Nm - optimised engine management (ECU) £549.00 (includes TAX) note:some earlier 2.0T FSI models require change of earlier type pressure limiting valve, valve must be of type 06D 130 757 C, price of additional valve and fitting time where applicable not included." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brabus Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Let's not forget that ABT are VERY conservative when quoting their gains in torque and bhp... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmx Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Sorry if I got that wrong, bmx - I don't know for certain. He def said ft.lbs but may have meant Nm. Either way, I feel confident that they know what they are doing. [/ QUOTE ] it could be right mate, but i think 85nm will be more realistic, thats about 60lbf. which is still bloody good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted November 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Red, any idea what this bit on the Weltmeister site means, i.e. from what date were the new valves used? "Golf V 2.0T FSI 200 HP 230 HP, 310 Nm - optimised engine management (ECU) £549.00 (includes TAX) note:some earlier 2.0T FSI models require change of earlier type pressure limiting valve, valve must be of type 06D 130 757 C, price of additional valve and fitting time where applicable not included." [/ QUOTE ] ....I noticed that too. I'd have to ask but prefer to collect several questions to ask before bothering them every 5 minutes by asking one at a time. Meanwhile it's the sort of question which Geoff aka Snoopy might know the answer to. I expect it's the first models pre 05 builds but I'm guessing for now. Unless someone else knows, I'll post when I find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oli Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Hi Oli It's the well established good relationship between Abt and VAG and Abt's reputation which attracts me. I've been waiting for Abt to get properly represented in the UK. I was slightly surprised that my dealer (Head Service Manager) was so accommodating but it makes all the difference. I want to get more used to my big brakes before I do another mod - I'm strange like that! Also, I daren't ask what it would do to my insurance premium. [/ QUOTE ] Excellent stuff, you should be used to your new brakes by the end of the week, remap on saturday And insurance wise, with a man of your calibre and experince, this would only make a small differnce to your yearly premium. Waiting to hear the report Oli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chungster Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 If you fit the Forge Twintercooler aswell you may even hit 290bhp which someone I know has on their 2.0TFSI motor (not GTI) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisg Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Oettinger are also VAG service centre in Germany....... what a shame the same isn't available in the UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oli Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 It must be 85ft/lb and not NM, as mine was putting out 259ft/lb, with only REVO stage 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chungster Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 [ QUOTE ] Oettinger are also VAG service centre in Germany....... what a shame the same isn't available in the UK [/ QUOTE ] You mean Oettinger isn't available? I can tell you they are but they are now owned by APR of America and all their maps are now written by APR. They do offer a 300bhp conversion tho with bigger turbo. However APR will be offering the 400bhp conversion for RHD cars next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted November 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 [ QUOTE ] If you fit the Forge Twintercooler aswell you may even hit 290bhp which someone I know has on their 2.0TFSI motor (not GTI) [/ QUOTE ] ....I'm not wanting as much as 290 neddies through the front wheels and especially as I'm advised that the sensible limit without more serious internal engine mods is 290 bhp max. I use my car for road rather than track. I think that Forge's Intake system probably wouldn't be so acceptable to my dealer - It depends what the mod involves doing. If you're talking about a race car then of course it's a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chungster Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 it keeps the standard intercooler and adds Forge's own IC in front of it. But like you I use my car everyday with the occasional excursion to private playing fields so need it to drivable and reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarmac_Terrorist Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 It certainly sound like they know what they're doing and obviously undertake much development & testing...but personally 275bhp would concern me from a reliability point of view...especially when VW use a more uprated TFSI engine for the anni30 GTI. Just my personal feelings but I would be very uneasy increasing power beyond 250bhp, particularly on a car which I may be keeping for a few years yet, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoSheds Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Interesting info there Robin on Abt's re-map. There was a improved OEM diverter valve fitted ( part Number .... Suffix 'C') to replace the earlier....Suffix 'B' version ). Photo 'attached'( taken from Vortex). You can check which version you have by taking off the engine cover to have a nose ( mine is a 'C' version ). Or you could visit your parts person to check which version is fitted quoting your VIN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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