Ben Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Morning chaps, Have tried a search, but couldn't find anything. Picked up the A3 on Saturday and need to start playing with it First up, xenons. Any tips on the retrofit? Cheers Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrymcg Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Ben, Have a look at this thread from Audi Sport Net, this is from a guy who has done it. The only problem you may encounter is that it is EU law that cars with Xenons have to have headlight washers fitted. Although I don't think it is law in UK. Hope this helps. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Ben, [ QUOTE ] legality is an issue with aftermarket retro fit kits. From DOT Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Have received the following guidance from The Department of Transport......... Dear Sir, The situation for Gas Discharge (HID High Intensity Discharge) (commonly known as Xenon) headlamps is complex. I attach links to the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 which regulate the situation in the UK. Under these Regulations Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law. However you will be well aware that new vehicles have Xenon headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the Xenon headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle). For the aftermarket, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "Xenon is banned in the aftermarket" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require Xenon in the aftermarket to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply. Therefore a Xenon headlamp sold in the aftermarket should: 1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component. 2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place). 3, Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned. In practice this means: 1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory. 2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam. 3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp. Hope that helps. *** We are aware of kit available in the aftermarket where a Xenon "burner" or bulb is fitted inside a headlamp designed for use with conventional Halogen filament bulbs. The burner is fitted with a "bayonet" type fitting so it fits where the Halogen bulb should fit. This is not legal and the vendor, the person who mounts it on the vehicle and the person who drives the vehicle are all committing an offence. (Which also means that he is invalidating the insurance.) The reason for this is that headlamps and bulbs are made to tight tolerances and the wrong type of bulb will cause an incorrect beam pattern to be emitted, which could cause dazzle and discomfort to other drivers. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [/ QUOTE ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 I do not know if it has become any more clear, since the information above was compiled, as i will admit its been around for a while. The issue is a grey one, There are many people that will tell you they have done it, without washers, without suspension leveling, and have passed MOT, but that does not make it legal. It means they have slipped through. Xenons create far more dazzeling bright lumen output compared to a standard halogen. Have a crash, cause an accident and if your lights are blamed, then I would seriously expect to be in the deep stuff when they investigate. Likewise, its a modification, , so notifyable to insurers. Where Hella do retfo fit Xenon kits for certain cars, They include the required high pressure washers and leveling kits needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattW Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Big article in last weeks Auto Express about it, the magazine has been campaingning for the Police to do something about it as it is illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Ben, Have a look at this thread from Audi Sport Net, this is from a guy who has done it. The only problem you may encounter is that it is EU law that cars with Xenons have to have headlight washers fitted. Although I don't think it is law in UK. Hope this helps. Terry [/ QUOTE ] Which thread chap? Thanks for all the warnings, I'll be using genuine parts and will be ultimatelty using headlamp wash. Cheers Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunbridge Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Have a look at this thread here As stated above and in this thread it is not legal althought it would appear that isn't stopping people doing it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrymcg Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Ben, Ok, I suppose it would help if I actuall added the thread!! Don't worry, I have had a word with myself and I am now sporting a nice black eye! http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?t=30478 Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h5djr Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 I think that it basically boils down to the fact that if you want legal xenon headlights you have to change the complete headlights for xenon headlights, together with washing and self-levelling and not just change the bulb units. In other words the jobs needs to be done properly or not at all. If you don't want to spend that sort of money but still want to improve the headlights, try some of the 50% extra type halogen bulbs. I have used them in all my previous 8L A3s and have them in my current 8P A3 and they definitely are an improvemnt of the standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Thanks guys, I already have one complete xenon lamp on the way, so it will be a proper install. No need for the black eye Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfiejts Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 It was me from Audi-Sport.Net who retrofitted the pukka 8P Xenon headlights - and very pleased I am with them too, compared with the abysmal beam pattern I had fitting my H7 HID-kit aftermarket bulbs into the standard Halogen reflectors. If you go onto www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/aim/aim.html there's a full guide to manually adjusting your headlights afterwards to set the beam pattern properly. I actually thought that I had mine set up OK, but I went through the process and found that they were quite out "left to right". After setting them up exactly as per the instructions, they're even better - an big difference that I wasn't expecting.... Any further queries - just ask.. I'm busy trying to see now if there's an easy way to fit a halogen bulb into the standard "D2S" projector mount, just in case I'm confronted at MOT time cos I haven't got washers or auto levelling... At worst I'd have to put my old halogen headlights back in but that would be a bit of a faff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfiejts Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 By the way - for others reading this thread, Philips have just brought out an "X-treme" range of +80% brightness halogen bulbs - a big improvement over the best available 50% in other ranges. It got a rave review in Auto Expres and if you can find a shop with any stock left (cos they're selling out like hot cakes), they'd be well worth fitting for anyone with stock halogen headlights... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h5djr Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Glad to hear you've done a 'proper' job alfiefts. One problem may be that if you just fit a halogen bulb into the standard D2S projector mount, the beam pattern will be all over the place as they are not designed for a halogen bulb. You car could fail an MOT because it's headlights are not giving a correct headlight beam. You would probably be better having the xenons without the self-leveling and washers as I'm sure not many MOT centres know that these are required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfiejts Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Thanks David. The beam pattern is spot on with the pukka Xenons, so hopefully will be OK for MOT. The H7 filament is exactly the same distance from the base of the bulb as the focal point of a D2S HID bulb, so I was hoping I could fettle the base of a spare H7 to fit into the projectors as a fall-back option - although a chap from Canada on one of the US Automotive Lighting forums suggests that an H9 or H11 bulb is an even better bet to get the right focal point and alignment, if I can make the base fit... As you say, if the focal point doesn't match, the pattern will be poor and you're even more likely to fail an mot. That's the main problem with retrofitted HID kits where the proper HID bulbs have been retrofitted with halogen bulb bases. They're all done by third-party outfits and its very unlikely that the focal point of the converted HID bulb will be in the right place to give you a proper beam pattern that you should get from your pukka halogen bulb. And I'm not just spouting off as a goody goody - I spent £200 of my hard earned money on an H7 HID kit - only to realise that for myself and wish I hadn't bothered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted January 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 All very helpful guys, I just need to find a passenger side unit and I'll start the process off. Why can't you use the self levelling? Presumably it's just a sensor mounted to one of the front struts or similar? Then a new switch unit, or is there a wiring nightmare? Cheers Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunbridge Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Even if you managed to fit the self-levelling you would still have no washers. I know it's unlikely that you'll get caught out but you are still breaking the law and therefore you are also driving without insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted January 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Even if you managed to fit the self-levelling you would still have no washers. I know it's unlikely that you'll get caught out but you are still breaking the law and therefore you are also driving without insurance. [/ QUOTE ] I thought I said I was fitting washers! Since when have you lot been so rightious Conduct a poll on how many people declare their remaps/wheels/brakes etc to their insurance companies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeDesmo Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 [ QUOTE ] but you are still breaking the law and therefore you are also driving without insurance. [/ QUOTE ] So doing something illegal invalidates insurance does it? I think they would have to prove that the illegal act caused a crash before refusing a payout. What about speeding, everybody does it and it's illegal, does that mean we're all uninsured. afaik even drunk-drivers are still covered by their insurance......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danksy Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 If you smashed your car up by going around a bend too quickly IMHO it's unlikely they'll take a look at your lights However... if a third party has an accident and claims he/she was dazzled they will almost certainly investigate and it could leave one in trouble I have thought of retro-fitting xenons, but ultimately through fear of being fined, or worse still being implicated in causing an accident i have thought better of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunbridge Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Since when have you lot been so rightious Conduct a poll on how many people declare their remaps/wheels/brakes etc to their insurance companies [/ QUOTE ] All I'm saying is I wouldn't take the risk, for the addition cost of declaring your mod's it's not worth the risk of your insurance not paying out. You might as well have no insurance at all, at least that way you would save yourself a decent amount of money. Lets face it, the law doesn't exactly come down very hard on uninsured drivers, hense why there is some many of the feckers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted January 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Good idea that. The insurance on the RS is due next week, nothing like having a £55k car with no cover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunbridge Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 Thats what people are doing if you don't declare their mods to their insurance. Anyway, back on topic, has anyone actually seen this conversion done with the washers and self leveling? I assume you need a full new bumper if you want the washers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfiejts Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 I suspect that there aren't any "technical standards" for headlight washers, so even if you didn't fit the standard ones, you could just stick a windscren washer jet into the bumper in front of the light and paint it body colour... I think the harder bit is probably the auto headlight levelling. It was deffo a different wiring harness into the headlight when I retrofitted the OEN Xenons into my 8P A3. Its a 4-wire levelling motor rather than a 3-wire one on the 3-may manual levelling one. One of the pins is missing on the wiring loop plug and the existing coloured wires for the motor are swapped around and go to different pins.... Even if you bought the levelling sensors for front & back suspension and sorted out VAG.COM, its not plug & play from a wiring perspective... Oh and going back off thread again, my insurance only requires me to tell them about mods "that are designed to increase the car's performance"... Now I didn't weigh the different headlights, so I can't say if the new ones with ballasts are lighter or not - I suppose if they are lighter, then the car will go a bit faster.... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeDesmo Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Now I didn't weigh the different headlights, so I can't say if the new ones with ballasts are lighter or not - I suppose if they are lighter, then the car will go a bit faster.... :-) [/ QUOTE ] I would say that the Xenons actually weigh more due to the ballasts and extra kit for levelling, washing etc therefore they are a 'go-slower' mod meaning you could compensate with a go-faster mod without actually making it go faster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h5djr Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 [ QUOTE ] I suspect that there aren't any "technical standards" for headlight washers, so even if you didn't fit the standard ones, you could just stick a windscren washer jet into the bumper in front of the light and paint it body colour... [/ QUOTE ] Headlamp washing systems have to be testing for compliance with ECE Regualtion R45 in terms of the cleaning effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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