Jmws Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Hi all, The arrival of my baby son in October means the A3 is looking a touch on the tight side for the family. My A3 is a 3.2 S-Line with DSG, fully loaded. I adore this car, creamy engine, DSG is a triumph and a solid interior. So...I've been looking at (Avant) A4s, A6s. The A4 seems honestly not much roomier than the Sportback. The A6 is definitely larger, plenty. But most of all this has just reminded me how expensive Audis are...! I looked at the Passat. I'd rather walk. I looked at MPVs and I just can't do that yet. Then I looked at the Subaru Legacy. Size-wise seems slotted in between the A4 and A6, with the 3.0 boxer and AWD...and in Executive S trim (same as UK B-Spec) is absolutely fully loaded - inverted Bilstein suspension, VCD, sports chassis, leather, satnav, sunroof - all the extras that cost such a fortune when I ordered the A3. So - the real question is mid-range, lower spec Audi or the range-topping 3.0 Legacy which comes with all the kit? I think I know the answer but would like all you helpful people to chime in and help make the decision. Cheers! js Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby_simon Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Budget ? If you need more room, you might be surprised about how little there is in an A4 Avant. Legacy - Yes Impreza Wagon ? V50 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cupramax Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 I definitely wouldn't bin a Sportback for an A4, I've had both and the A4 has no more legroom in the back although the boot is slightly larger. The A6 is a cracking looking car but really is hideously expensive in anything other than poverty spec. Not sure what to suggest not knowing what budget you've got.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_C Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 My best mates family bought a Legacy 3.0 R Spec B new in 2005. Nice machine, but just isn't that quick, not helped by long gearing in the six speed manual box. He knows full well I've never forgiven him for not going for a used B6 S4 Avant instead! Great estate - as you say loaded with kit like leather, Nav and aforementioned huge two-piece sunroof as standard - but I would still not recommend it over a used A4 or A6 Avant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmws Posted September 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Yeah, was also surprised at lack of extra space in A4 over Sportback, and shocked speechless at how much a decent A6 costs. Scooby_Simon - not been impressed by V50 reviews. Just doesn't seem for me. Impreza Wagon is also surprisingly small in back/boot so no real advantage. Cupramax - rear legroom is an issue as I can barely fit the ISOFIX baby carrier base in the A3 without sliding the passenger seat right forward. Budget is whatever I can get for the A3 (in Switzerland that's anything between CHF40-50k (or roughly £18-20k) plus a max of about 10k I can add in. Or I could go for finance, although prefer not to. The Legacy is CHF58k new. A6 is silly money, definitely have to be financed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmws Posted September 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Or, as Ian rightly says, I could go for a used A6. Although the choice in used cars in Switzerland is NOT great and it can be hard to find the spec you want. Quattro or 4/AWD is a must in the Swiss snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmws Posted September 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Audi has announced the prices for the new Audi A4, at least in the Netherlands, in Frankfurt. Prices start from 33.150 Euro for the 1.8 TFSI and range up to 52.665 Euro for the 3.2 V6. Diesel engines start from 39.900 Euro for the 2.0 TDI and go up to 53.100 Euro for the 3.0 TDI. [/ QUOTE ] Holy smokes. That's almost CHF90k for a 3.2 or 3.0 diesel...CHF30k more than a Legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edo Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Not sure about Switzerland, but 30k will easily get you an 07 A6 Avant with a decent engine and spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_C Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 With all the old shape (C5) A6 Avants now three years old and off-lease, there are lots of bargain old shape cars around. The last-of-the-line 1.9 PD 130 Sports Avants handle quite nicely, apparently massive improved over early C5 TDis in non-sport trim. If you don't mind running around in an old shape model, there cannot be a better machine out there. Huge boot! Gizze's now-departed 130 Sport.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmws Posted September 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 30k sterling is probably beyond my current means. Hmmm...new Legacy or old A6? This could be tough. I am a sucker for new but fiscal reality has the nasty habit of intruding...especially with new baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmws Posted September 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Just specced an A6 3.0 TDI S-Line with desired bits for fun and giggles, £51k. Done some serious reading about new A4, looks very nice. But no Avant announced yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_C Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Just specced an A6 3.0 TDI S-Line with desired bits for fun and giggles, £51k. [/ QUOTE ] Oh my word! By comparison, an Avant like the above - a final year 2004 1.9 PD 130 Sport - could be had in the UK for about 10k now with a mileage around 80k. Lots of ex-company cars with mega six figure mileage around. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted September 15, 2007 Report Share Posted September 15, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Nice machine, but just isn't that quick... ...I would still not recommend it over a used A4 or A6 Avant. [/ QUOTE ] I can't think of an A4/A6 Avant that would be quicker. In terms of performance, the only area the 3.0 boxer lets itself down is torque at low revs. But it's easily the quickest car of any of the realistic choices mentioned here. And easily the best spec'd. If an A3 sportback isn't big enough an A4 Avant won't be. If you get an A6 Avant you'll have plenty of space but you'll also run the real risk of dying of boredom. I cannot think of another reasonable sized estate that can do all the things a Legacy Spec B can do and still be a decent car to drive. Don't buy new though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_C Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 [ QUOTE ] In terms of performance, the only area the 3.0 boxer lets itself down is torque at low revs. [/ QUOTE ] The tall gearing in the manual six speed box doesn't help things does it! Edit - I already mentioned that above sorry. The fact is 240 brake isn't much nowdays. The B6 S4 has over 100 horsepower more! Said friend with the Legacy still only achieves about 22-24 mpg, so it's not like the Impreza is decent economy wise. Audi's 3.0 TDi engine would be just as quick in everyday driving. Whilst I appreciate they have increased the power & torque recently, something like a 2005 A6 Avant 3.0 TDi quattro S line Tip would suit the needs. In non-sport trim I imagine they are fairly barge like? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 [ QUOTE ] The fact is 240 brake isn't much nowdays. The B6 S4 has over 100 horsepower more! Said friend with the Legacy still only achieves about 22-24 mpg, so it's not like the Impreza is decent economy wise. [/ QUOTE ] So no better than the S4 then... [ QUOTE ] Audi's 3.0 TDi engine would be just as quick in everyday driving. Whilst I appreciate they have increased the power & torque recently, something like a 2005 A6 Avant 3.0 TDi quattro S line Tip would suit the needs. In non-sport trim I imagine they are fairly barge like? [/ QUOTE ] Only when you chuck them round corners, which, to be fair, is not what the A6 is about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_C Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 Last week I had a quick drive in a 2.7TDi Le Mans Edition A6 saloon (FWD) and was pleasantly surprised how well it handled through tight bends at speed. Very un-barge like for its size IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 Ian, to get 22-24mpg either your mate does an awful lot of town driving or he's got a solid lead right foot. Granted mine's a saloon so it's marginally better, but I'm averaging 27-29 depending on what I'm doing. Can be as low as 21 around town and as high as 33 cruising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_C Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Last week I had a quick drive in a 2.7TDi Le Mans Edition A6 saloon (FWD) and was pleasantly surprised how well it handled through tight bends at speed. Very un-barge like for its size IMO. [/ QUOTE ] Even a 2wd? Blimey! It was yourself I was refering to above with regards to the late C5 A6 1.9 PD 130 Sports handling sweetly. Seem to recall you got one as a loaner a few years back. Good to hear the C6 is still poised, even with the extra weight of a V6 over the nose. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark88 Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 I had more room in the back of my 3 door A3 than I have in the back of the RS4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Well yes, there is that, but I guess you don't sit in the back of your car so you're not too worried... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmws Posted September 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 Well, after much deliberation and a few test drives we are going to hang on to the A3 for the moment. A4 not a big enough step up, A5 gorgeous but only 2 door, A6 (a new one) wonderful but shockingly expensive. Have looked at old A6s and they are still an option if we really need the space. May look at the new A4 Avant (supposed to be larger than current model) which is due I think towards the end of next year, or the rumoured A5 Sportback which looks slick (anyone got any details?). Maybe a Q5. Ultimately the Legacy seems fun, well-specced and with enough performance to keep me happy, but there are NO actual dealers in Switz, only import agents, and I couldn't get a new spec Executive S to test drive. I am never going to buy a car I can't test first! The real problem is that I've been Audified. I am not sure I can ever buy another mainstream car from another manufacturer... Thanks for all advice and commentary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_C Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 [ QUOTE ] A6 (a new one) wonderful but shockingly expensive. Have looked at old A6s and they are still an option if we really need the space. [/ QUOTE ] Old shape A6 Avant it is then! All Audi models are becoming 'it cars' to some extent - everyone wanting the latest model, nobody seeming to want old shape models. Understandable perhaps, but the gulf [in price] between old and new shape models seems more with Audi and Mercedes than it does with any other manufacturer. The old shape A6 wasn't even that expensive either - a 2003 A6 Avant 1.9 PD 130 Sport only cost 24k new over here in the UK. By comparison, a new 2007 A6 Avant 2.0 PD 140 S line cost over 30k - expensive as you say. Unless I'm very much mistaken, the 170 is yet to be launched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark_90 Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Ian, I think you are very much mistaken, as when I was looking through the spec lists for A6's I'm sure the 170 DPF was in there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_C Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Really! About bloody time! The A6 engine range is a bit of a mess. There is a 170 PS petrol I think - what's that going to be, the 1.8 TFSI? - but last time I looked no diesel. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bchase Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 I like to advertise in the morning the evening and all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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