Mook Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 B7 RS4 - 420PS E92 M3 - 420PS New Jag XF SV8 - 420PS. Is there some kind of common thread going on here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
330dcoupe Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 [ QUOTE ] B7 RS4 - 420PS E92 M3 - 420PS New Jag XF SV8 - 420PS. Is there some kind of common thread going on here? [/ QUOTE ] The car industry has gone power mad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 But it's also gone weight mad, and that is my biggest gripe. I miss the era when performance cars were stripped saloons with tuned engines. Take the M5 and RS6.. now at record weights!.. have they forgotten the laws of physics? That's why I just can't get excited about the new bread of uber wagons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torino101 Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 Totally agreed - I'm waiting for one of the manufactures to put together a well made small coupe or hatch, ala the S3 or R32 that has circa 300bhp but DOESN'T weigh circa 1.5 tonnes. What happened to hatches being around 1150kg..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpaul0055 Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 I hope so... Would love the A RS32 With the RS4 engine. DARE YOU VW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theduisbergkid Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 [ QUOTE ] B7 RS4 - 420PS E92 M3 - 420PS New Jag XF SV8 - 420PS. Is there some kind of common thread going on here? [/ QUOTE ] No co-incidence I suppose, but I'm more interested in PWR, I wonder what the PWR is on the above compared to some of the originals from BMW, Audi etc. Less is more in my book, what the use of a squillion horses if you can't use 'em all ? I was sat behine a 100hp Panda the other day thinking 'now that would be fun'. Still, there is no substitute for the sound of a straight 6, V8 etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
330dcoupe Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 [ QUOTE ] But it's also gone weight mad, and that is my biggest gripe. I miss the era when performance cars were stripped saloons with tuned engines. Take the M5 and RS6.. now at record weights!.. have they forgotten the laws of physics? That's why I just can't get excited about the new bread of uber wagons. [/ QUOTE ] Allot of this I believe, is now down to European health and safety regulations....which only TVR are unaware of! lol - then there's comfort levels and well finished interiors - this all adds to the weight. I can totally understand having this power around Germany and the States - because They have places where the power can be used. Here - were restricted to track days. You pull off the lights and you come to a round about - so there's you 0-60 sprint gone - you try and pick up speed on a duel carriageway and some half whit pulls out in front of you because his lane is full of trucks: there's your 40-70 sprint gone- and you try and see how 'it' can go - but phoney signs soon slow you down to tell you there's an imaginary accident up ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_C Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 I do sympathise with the manufacturers to some degree though - they're not making the cars heavier just for the sake of it. They are constantly under pressure to meet ever more stringent safety legislation, whilst still satisfying the never ending demands of the consumer for more and more creature comforts. All this generally means more weight, and more weight means more power to maintain performance. Using lighter material in the body's construction (as with the new RS6 for example) pushes the cost up, so people still moan! Edit: You beat me to it 330dcoupe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calm Chris Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Totally agreed - I'm waiting for one of the manufactures to put together a well made small coupe or hatch, ala the S3 or R32 that has circa 300bhp but DOESN'T weigh circa 1.5 tonnes. What happened to hatches being around 1150kg..... [/ QUOTE ] Seat Cupra weighs 1375 kg and for £500 Revo / remap will take it to circa 310 bhp Imports available for circa £18k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chav Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 I see your point JC, but how come a fezz 360 is so light etc? its obviously possible to reduce weight by some margin. Take an audi for example, even the interior trim is sturdy but cheapo plastic. I think the problem is most brands, including premium ones, are still using parts supplied by companies that havent started using anything lightweight - same old shite, 20 years on etc. The weight saving on new M3 is a classic example of complete bollox - 5kg for the sake of a carbon fibre roof...wtf? why dont they just use new lightweight seats, or put the battery and fuel tank lower in the car - oh yes - they'd have to physically redesign somethng for that, instead of just polishing a 20 year old turd and calling it a "revolutionary new platform/chassis" and all the other crap they spiel. There's a 1000 different components they could all use, but its all about cost and profit margin so they change as little as poss with each new model "generation" The fact that 90% of the population are stupid doesnt help either. 420bhp sounds good - if you forget (or are too dumb to realise) its pushing something that weighs more than a caravan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHA Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 Some hot hatches can be had with less than 1200kg and circa 200bhp. Granted they are not for carrying 4 adults but they are still out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 Simple solution....Get rid of the doors, the windscreen, the roof....Get an Ariel Atom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techieboy Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 875kg + 175bhp = My VX220 The only way they can make that any lighter is to reduce the thickness of the fibreglass. Farting to close to it can damage the clam shells as it is, so God knows what it would be like thinner. Only other weight savings I can make (other than going on a diet ) is to reduce the weight of the brakes which I'm doing by replacing the OEM kit with some nice AP Racing aluminium bells and lightweight rotors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 New Impreza WRX is 1395kg with 230PS. I shouldn't think the STI will be alot heavier. Maybe 1450kg ... with 300-320PS. That should be interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torino101 Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 The one that pisses me off the most is the 350Z - in so many ways it is my ideal car, but its just so fecking heavy.... The latest one is around 310bhp but it's 1550kg why exactly??? The worst culprit for this seems to be Alfa Romeo - the Brera 3.2 weighs 1650kg!! That's the same as a 3 litre A8....... This was exactly why I loved my S2000 so much - 240bhp which isn't huge in todays climate, but it was 1240kg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayerbloke Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 [ QUOTE ] I shouldn't think the STI will be alot heavier. Maybe 1450kg ... with 300-320PS. That should be interesting... [/ QUOTE ] Z06, 1418kg, 505bhp, 470lb-ft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v6tas Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Totally agreed - I'm waiting for one of the manufactures to put together a well made small coupe or hatch, ala the S3 or R32 that has circa 300bhp but DOESN'T weigh circa 1.5 tonnes. What happened to hatches being around 1150kg..... [/ QUOTE ] Well even with a kerb weight of 1447kg my little baby still feels like a real flying machine, even in standard mode. Its what you get used to i suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Totally agreed - I'm waiting for one of the manufactures to put together a well made small coupe or hatch, ala the S3 or R32 that has circa 300bhp but DOESN'T weigh circa 1.5 tonnes. What happened to hatches being around 1150kg..... [/ QUOTE ] Well even with a kerb weight of 1447kg my little baby still feels like a real flying machine, even in standard mode. Its what you get used to i suppose [/ QUOTE ] ....Reading this thread I've been thinking along the same lines: I don't know what my Mk5 GTI weighs but she feels very agile and fun to drive, doubtless helped by my various modifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorburn Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 [ QUOTE ] 875kg + 175bhp = My VX220 The only way they can make that any lighter is to reduce the thickness of the fibreglass. Farting to close to it can damage the clam shells as it is, so God knows what it would be like thinner. Only other weight savings I can make (other than going on a diet ) is to reduce the weight of the brakes which I'm doing by replacing the OEM kit with some nice AP Racing aluminium bells and lightweight rotors. [/ QUOTE ] Got carpets? Can't remember if that was standard on the VX220. I was looking at one recently and am fairly sure it had them. Standard seats? Stereo? Speakers? Sure the alloy wheels aren't lightest around either. But even so I bet it's more fun than most, I make do with 1000kg and 140bhp and never feel short changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v6tas Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 ........"Fun to drive".......To me mate that really is what its all about. All the posters on TSN vary quite broadly in their financial clout when it comes to buying cars. I can afford what i drive and i couldnt be happier. Give me a lottery win and no doubt my R32 would stay my daily drive but my weekend drive would change somewhat no doubt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby_simon Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 WR1 is 1470kg and 320 bhp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
330dcoupe Posted September 22, 2007 Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 [ QUOTE ] ........"Fun to drive".......To me mate that really is what its all about. All the posters on TSN vary quite broadly in their financial clout when it comes to buying cars. I can afford what i drive and i couldnt be happier. Give me a lottery win and no doubt my R32 would stay my daily drive but my weekend drive would change somewhat no doubt [/ QUOTE ] With the 2nd hand car market getting so good - you can spend as little as you want (realistically) and still end up getting a decent car for the price. I mean you can pick up previous generation M5's for the same price as a Used MK5 Golf TDI now. Yes, totally different types of car, but still scary when you think about it! 10 years ago - we would never had those kind of options. So as the power mad car industry continues to put silly number of horses in our cars now - we can spend £5k in 6-8 years time and get a riot of a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon magnifique Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Z06, 1418kg, 505bhp, 470lb-ft [/ QUOTE ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_C Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 [ QUOTE ] I don't know what my Mk5 GTI weighs but she feels very agile and fun to drive. [/ QUOTE ] All relative though. If you drove a Clio 172 Cup or 205 GTi 1.9 you'd be amazed. Likewise, when I drove an Elise I was totally gobsmacked - just about as pure as you can get this side of an impractical Caterham. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cris Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 This is something I've been seeing in the motorcycle world for a long time. Sportsbike marques (Jap ones at least) are very competitive about the weight of their bikes and will struggle to save a tiny amount of weight from every component. Generally if a bike is 10-20kg heavier than the pack then the press gives it a panning. It would be nice if this was adopted by the car world too. I know that Lotus and a few others do try and manage weight but 99% of cars are stupidly heavy nowadays. I would struggle to name a sports car on sale today which wasn't an extreme sports car (ie Caterham/Atom etc) which weighed under a ton. So we have the entire Lotus range (AFAIK) and maybe one of the Morgans (not sure on that). I think that the Panda is just under a ton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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