42reina42 Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 Hi guys, To anyone that would like to "denounce" this year's irregularities that have affected the current position of 2005 & 2006 F1 Champion - Fernando Alonso, please: Click Here ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 No, i don't support the Spanish viewpoint Gonzo is a tosser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron13 Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 Any chance of an english version ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie123 Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 Alonso is in the position he is due to his own actions. Personally if I'd tried to blackmail my boss I'd have been kicked out without my feet touching the ground, so he's lucky to be still driving this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42reina42 Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 [ QUOTE ] No, i don't support the Spanish viewpoint Gonzo is a tosser [/ QUOTE ] No problem, all the points of view are respectable ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42reina42 Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Any chance of an english version ? [/ QUOTE ] Thanks byron13 ... I do not know if there is an English version, but I will try to look at it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42reina42 Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Alonso is in the position he is due to his own actions. Personally if I'd tried to blackmail my boss I'd have been kicked out without my feet touching the ground, so he's lucky to be still driving this year [/ QUOTE ] I do not agree absolutely ... If your boss is making your life very hard and very difficult, you probably move and search for another job IMMEDIATELY ... You know that Alonso has a contract and cannot breach it easily ... Of course, Alonso is willing to leave the team that has squeezed all his knowledge and that has given more headaches or "cons" than "pros". And of course, I'm not trying to convince anyone to sign the petition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacake Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 [ QUOTE ] I do not agree absolutely ... If your boss is making your life very hard and very difficult, you probably move and search for another job IMMEDIATELY ... You know that Alonso has a contract and cannot breach it easily ... Of course, Alonso is willing to leave the team that has squeezed all his knowledge and that has given more headaches or "cons" than "pros". And of course, I'm not trying to convince anyone to sign the petition. [/ QUOTE ] So if your boss is giving you a hard time it gives you carte blanche to act unethically? And is a flipping great wodge of cash and being within reach of a third world championship not sufficient "pro"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42reina42 Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Any chance of an english version ? [/ QUOTE ] byron 13, the text is only in Spanish because it has been created by a Spanish member of a local web. I have asked him to translate the text, but I have introduced it in an electronic translator and it says, more or less the following: To: F.I.A. (International Federation of the automobile) In view of the facts occurred in the championship of F1 2007, and as become fond of and loving of this sport, we see ourselves in the obligation publicly denounce the irregularities that have come happening throughout, and which they show clear indications of treatment of favor for pilot L. Hamilton, as well as serious damages for pilot F. Alonso, as much on the part of the McLaren equipment as by the own Federation the International of Motoring. The facts proven and presumed irregularities are the following ones: G.P. Australia (18-03-07) the strategy of shutdowns in boxes is favorable to L. Hamilton in damage of F. Alonso. G.P. Barhein (15-04-07) Strangely the single-seater of F. Alonso suffers damages with nocturnal condition, according to justifies his own equipment, due to which its car cannot follow the rate of his partner , whose single-seater works perfectly. L. Hamilton changes to several times his trajectory in the exit, when this totally prohibited, not being sanctioned for that reason. G.P. Monaco (27-05-07) For want of few returns for the end, the equipment orders its 19,000 pilots to lower of r.p.m., L. Hamilton, disobeying to the equipment, does not make it and tries exceed his companion, when not obtaining it complaint at the end of the expensive one before the F.I.A. and the English mass media, causing an investigation and a great mediatic pressure on F. Alonso. The equipment does not take measures against L. Hamilton nor defends to F. Alonso. On the other hand, during the race, L. Hamilton steps on the solid line continuous line of trenches in the exit of boxes, which this prohibited, not receiving for that reason any sanction of the F.I.A. G.P. Canada (10-06-07) strange Behavior of the single-seater of F. Alonso. Once again the car nº 1 not this in the same mechanical conditions that the one of its companion L. Hamilton. G.P. EE.UU. (17-06-07) Again the strategies of shutdown in boxes favor blatantly to L. Hamilton in damage of F. Alonso. G.P. France (01-07-07) Strangely, before the forecast of rain, F. Alonso has problems with his gear box in the Q3, being relegated to position 10 in the exit grill, while his companion L. Hamilton does not suffer any problem. Of the Rose it comments during the race that this game of spare parts perfectly was identified and had been retired. G.P. Germany (22-07-07) Amazing performance of the direction of race before the exit of track of L. Hamilton. A rescue crane places to L. Hamilton in track after its exit, in spite of the serious risk for the other runners. Suspiciously the crane did not remove to the runners by the order in who habian themselves left, but first a L. Hamilton. The regulation establishes clearly that they must extinguish his motors and leave the single-seater, since the other runners did. G.P. Hungary (05-08-07) corresponds to Him to F. Alonso an extra return in the Q3. L. Hamilton prevents it skipping you order them of equipment, entering to change tires by his own decision behind F. Alonso, to whom incredibly they place used hard tires. Immediately later they place soft new to L. Hamilton. F. Alonso obtains the first position in spite of the tires, which causes the misfortune of Ron Denis and the new denunciation of L. Hamilton to the F.I.A. As a result of this F. Alonso is delayed to 5 positions in the exit grill, applying a nonexistent sanction in the regulation, and McLaren loses the points of constructors in this race. Inexplicably the equipment does not take measurement some against L. Hamilton. G.P. Italy (09-09-07) L. Hamilton places the car in diagonal in the exit grill and makes several changes of trajectory, not once again being admonished for that reason. G.P. Belgium (16-09-07) Presumed attempt of sabotage to the car of F. Alonso, his mánager let knowledge that the day of the free training the own F. Alonso discovers that something does not go well in its propellent, forcing the mechanics to review it and discovering that she lacked a cover of the motor oil. It is known that if had given single a return in these conditions would be broken its motor, being delayed 10 positions in the exit grill. G.P. Japan (30-07-07) Incredibly F. Alonso again has problems in the Q3 with his tires, as he himself declares after finalizing the classification. L. Hamilton again has an extra with new tires and less combustible return, in which she obtains the first position. During the race both pilots undergo shocks, and single the pilot is sanctioned who touches itself with L. Hamilton, although it is F. Alonso the one that suffers serious damages in its single-seater. The equipment does not warn F. Alonso of the damages of its car, that suffers an accident before the passivity of its own equipment. During the security car subsequent to the accident, L. Hamlton skips the norms again, causing an accident to its companions Weber and Vettel, not being sanctioned during the race, nor after the later investigation with new and full tests in his against. G.P. China (06-10-07) By nth time F.Alonso returns to have problems in the Q3, in spite of to have been as much or but fast that its companion during the free training and the two first turns of classification. It completes definitive test, after the second position of F. Alonso in China and the abandonment of L. Hamilton, single a mechanic of McLaren goes to podio to celebrate it. Later Ron Dennis declares publicly that the fight in this race was not with Ferrari, but with F. Alonso, in their own equipment considers the adversary him to beat. Once analyzed and resisted the facts previously mentioned, we found arguments but that sufficient to declare that the treatment of equality between pilots has not been respected, neither by McLaren nor by the Federation the International of Motoring in the application of the regulation of It formulates 1. Therefore, the down signatory ones, we want to denounce publicly all these irregular situations and to express our total indignation yet the happened thing in the championship of F1 2007. Sincerely, The Undersigned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42reina42 Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I do not agree absolutely ... If your boss is making your life very hard and very difficult, you probably move and search for another job IMMEDIATELY ... You know that Alonso has a contract and cannot breach it easily ... Of course, Alonso is willing to leave the team that has squeezed all his knowledge and that has given more headaches or "cons" than "pros". And of course, I'm not trying to convince anyone to sign the petition. [/ QUOTE ] So if your boss is giving you a hard time it gives you carte blanche to act unethically? And is a flipping great wodge of cash and being within reach of a third world championship not sufficient "pro"? [/ QUOTE ] My friend, if Alonso had had normal working conditions, he already had won the Championship !!! And, what are his non-ethical actions ? Alonso is a fair player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 Alonso may yet win the championship but Hamilton has beaten him fair and square lots of times this season. I used to respect Alonso but not any longer. What's Spanish for throwing toys out of pram? Whoever wins the Drivers Championship I won't be as unsporting to suggest that they shouldn't have won it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacake Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 [ QUOTE ] And, what are his non-ethical actions ? [/ QUOTE ] When he didn't get what he wanted from Ron, he threatened to go to the FIA with information demonstrating that McLaren had benefited from Ferrari technology. That's blackmail. If he had that information, he should have submitted it without looking to use it as leverage to advance his position in the team. I've read through the translation you posted, and (where I understood it) it seems very one-sided, and very selective. It just seems like sour grapes to me. Alonso is a world-class driver and it is a disservice to him and to F1 as a whole to try to complain about the things listed. It all comes across as trying to claim that everything that has gone wrong for Alonso this season has been a McLaren conspiracy against him. Why would they pay a fortune to bring him to the team and then try to make him lose? Complaining about Hamilton being parked at an angle in the grid box? It's allowed, as far as I can tell. Complaining about "strange behaviour" of Alonso's car? Clutching at straws. And I'm mystified at the complaint that Hamilton was prevented from racing Alonso at the end of the Monaco GP. How on Earth is that evidence of bias in Hamilton's favour? At the end of the day, it's all moot. An F1 team can have a lead driver and a second driver, so long as once they're racing they're allowed to compete against each other. The only time that has been questionable was at the aforementioned Monaco GP, in Alonso's favour. Alonso was put in a car capable of winning the championship. He may well still do so. If he does, it's not just because he's a very good driver and a deserving champion. It will also be because of McLaren, not in spite of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randellp Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 Reina, I'm not sure, even despite the bad translation, what case there is to prove here. Too many coincidences adn "mysterious sabotages" going on. I don't doubt that the team, the drivers, the FIA, and perhaps evern Ferrari should all be found guilty of bringing F1 into disrepute this season, but in no way should Alonso be seen as the poor victim here. Besides - he is still in line to win the Championship. At least the Kiwis just had the good grace to whinge about the referee after they had actually lost! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirPrize Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 i can't understand all the fuss about the ferrair technical data - it certainly hasn't enabled them to produce a winning car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Alonso was put in a car capable of winning the championship. He may well still do so. If he does, it's not just because he's a very good driver and a deserving champion. It will also be because of McLaren, not in spite of them. [/ QUOTE ] ....Well said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42reina42 Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Hamilton has beaten him fair and square lots of times this season. [/ QUOTE ] I'm sure that FA will congratulate LH if he wins the championship. LH is a great driver but has shown recently that he's still not prepared to be the no. 1. As you probably know, Dennis considers FA an enemy; he has thought that not only in China, and this is the reason of the complaint! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42reina42 Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] And, what are his non-ethical actions ? [/ QUOTE ] When he didn't get what he wanted from Ron, he threatened to go to the FIA with information demonstrating that McLaren had benefited from Ferrari technology. That's blackmail. If he had that information, he should have submitted it without looking to use it as leverage to advance his position in the team. I've read through the translation you posted, and (where I understood it) it seems very one-sided, and very selective. It just seems like sour grapes to me. Alonso is a world-class driver and it is a disservice to him and to F1 as a whole to try to complain about the things listed. It all comes across as trying to claim that everything that has gone wrong for Alonso this season has been a McLaren conspiracy against him. Why would they pay a fortune to bring him to the team and then try to make him lose? Complaining about Hamilton being parked at an angle in the grid box? It's allowed, as far as I can tell. Complaining about "strange behaviour" of Alonso's car? Clutching at straws. And I'm mystified at the complaint that Hamilton was prevented from racing Alonso at the end of the Monaco GP. How on Earth is that evidence of bias in Hamilton's favour? At the end of the day, it's all moot. An F1 team can have a lead driver and a second driver, so long as once they're racing they're allowed to compete against each other. The only time that has been questionable was at the aforementioned Monaco GP, in Alonso's favour. Alonso was put in a car capable of winning the championship. He may well still do so. If he does, it's not just because he's a very good driver and a deserving champion. It will also be because of McLaren, not in spite of them. [/ QUOTE ] Do you really think that it was ethic to punish FA with 5 positions in Hungary? Well, you know that Hamilton is after that: this is very fair, eh? This is very easy, to win outside the track! Ah! Who has made the car to be a competitive one?: Alonso, as he did with the Renault! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 reina - We can all argue and debate such things until the cows come home! It's motor racing - That's what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42reina42 Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] And, what are his non-ethical actions ? [/ QUOTE ] Why would they pay a fortune to bring him to the team and then try to make him lose? [/ QUOTE ] Very clear!: in order to be LH's personal teacher and to make the McLaren a competitive car..you know he improved terribly the Renault! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42reina42 Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 [ QUOTE ] reina - We can all argue and debate such things until the cows come home! It's motor racing - That's what happens. [/ QUOTE ] Ha ha ha..good one RedRobin! But this is, for me, a motor racing salad served with a few of 'ilegal mushrooms! ; ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 [ QUOTE ] Very clear!: in order to be LH's personal teacher and to make the McLaren a competitive car..you know he improved terribly the Renault! [/ QUOTE ] Bawahahahah.. now you're just having paranoid delusions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42reina42 Posted October 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Very clear!: in order to be LH's personal teacher and to make the McLaren a competitive car..you know he improved terribly the Renault! [/ QUOTE ] Bawahahahah.. now you're just having paranoid delusions [/ QUOTE ] My friend, the McLaren was third in las year..I do not know who is more alucinated, ha ha ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarMad Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 reina I think you need help with your condition. Alonso as a few others have mentioned had my respect prior to this season he showed at Renault that he could be a world class driver. However whilst at Mclaren he has done nothing but complain about things. At the start of the season he didn't get the best from the car and the tyres where Hamilton adapted far faster to driving in F1 than Alonso did already being an F1 driver. He made mistakes and wasn't aggressive enough and didn't feel comfortable in the car. Hamiltons is very self assured and yes arrogant and that rubbed Alonso up the wrong way, many driver in the past has done this to their team mate, however very few throw their toys out of the pram with the ease that Alonso has. He just wasn't ready for Hamilton being so good IMO. His ethics have been called into question on several occasion and that is the most difficult thing to grasp over and above his performance on the track. If Mclaren are now biased against him and I don't think they are do you blame them? I know I wouldn't if I had done similar to him in any company I work for I would be sacked plain and simple. I hope he doesn't win personally but if he does I hope he goes back to Renault, lets see how he does then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron13 Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 Hi Reina Thanks for the translation but I am afraid that some of the detail is lost in the translation but I do agree with you that there has been a growing emphasis in MC to favour LH and not FH (by fair means or foul we shall never know!) RD is no saint folks (even though he is English!) he is just as cut throat as every other Team Principal up and down the Pit lane. My suspicion is that when FA joined MC he had all sorts of assurances that he would be the No1 driver and that yes in fact he would be tasked with nurturing LH and bringing along MC to compete with Ferrari. Don’t forget it was some coup to wrestle FA away from Renault (double WC and all that) I think what surprised everyone including RD and MC was how fast LH came on song and at this point RD could not resist favouring his protégé in any way he could! (makes financial sense as LH was on a relatively cheap contract for his first year and RD owns all his marketing rights at present) At this stage FA starts feeling a bit aggrieved at the lack of focus on him and some of LH “stunts” to upstage him were frankly lacking in respect to FA. Now at this point we enter the aftermath of the spy saga when again in MHO RD could not resist having a little look at his nemesis’s dossier and possibly gleaming a few tit bits for MC !!!!! This will only ever come out if FA leaves and blows the whistle completely (and I hope he does) which is what is keeping RD almost honest!! Frankly I would do exactly the same thing if my contract had not been honoured and I was effectively ostracised by me team principal. You will not find many supporters for FA in here Reina – many on here are a bit swept up in the whole LH English bit to see any wrongdoing or anything but stellar support for LH. Interesting that our usual dim view of the UK media is somewhat overlooked recently and the Spanish press “must” be just mud slinging. Do we really think that any UK editor would print any of the stuff the Spanish guys are eluding to ??? Not a chance as anything negative about LH is quashed in case it spoils sales. Anyway bit of a rant sorry but me thinks this will all be out in the open when FA leaves MC……………………….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazza_g Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 [ QUOTE ] And, what are his non-ethical actions ? Alonso is a fair player. [/ QUOTE ] how about blocking Lewis on his pit stop to mess up his qualifying...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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