GCab Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 Random thought: why do people get worked up about others using 'driving lamps'/fog lamps, but not xenons ? Seems to me the dazzle/nuisance factor is the same from both. Thre is no evidence it actually causes dangerous distraction but I agree it can be unpleasant (in either case). I'm not all that much against either (I'm not into banning things just because you don't personally like them - anti-foxhunting types take note), though if anything I think xenons are more painful to a dark-adapted eye. But it takes all sorts. The only thing I *don't* understand is people thinking xenons are cool but that foglamps are somehow intrinsically much worse. Either you're opposed to both, or to neither, I'd have thought - otherwise inconsistent, surely ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drillslinger Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 Xenons are designed to be used for normal driving, therefore measures have been taken to reduce the possibility of dazzling other drivers. Whereas, Foglights were designed to be used in situations of reduced visibility, and NOT as normal driving lights. It's THIS that annoys me personally. If there isn't any fog, then WHY have your "FOG" Lights on?!?! Then there's also the dazzle effect. You're driving down the road, with fog lights on, with NO FOG, and they're blinding me to boot That's when it gets annoying. Other than that, I just shake my head at folks who think it's "Cool" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hants_Cruiser_UK Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 I get worked up with the improper use of front/rear foglamps, simply because it is illegal to use them unless the visibility is restricted enough for their use. More often than not it isn't. People seem to use them merely as a fashion statement and that pis**s me off. Other people seem to put them on at the slightest hint of 'mist' and then forget to turn them off As to Xenons - I have been followed by a focus three times this week and each time I have ended up with a splitting headache. Even dipping the mirror makes no difference. The constant bobbing up and down is really annoying too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shao_khan Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 Xenons are legal to use. Foglamps have restrictions placed upon their use and are generally used by dickheads that run people over on zebra crossings and dont know where the off switch is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snail Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 [ QUOTE ] Xenons are legal to use. Foglamps have restrictions placed upon their use and are generally used by dickheads that run people over on zebra crossings and dont know where the off switch is. [/ QUOTE ] Exactly!!! How often do you guys leave your foglights on?? probably never. And if someone flashes you, whats the first thing you check? foglights. I've had situations where i flash people repeatedly, they get annoyed, get out of their car, come over to abuse you, then go away all coy, because they realise their stupidty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drillslinger Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 Actually, whenever I get flashed, the first thing I do is check to be sure I remembered to wear pants Then I make sure my high beams aren't on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snail Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 lol@drill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burti Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 [ QUOTE ] I've had situations where i flash people repeatedly, they get annoyed, get out of their car, come over and slap me ! [/ QUOTE ] Snail, thats because u just cut them up at the roundabout !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drillslinger Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 And they think I'm joking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snail Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I've had situations where i flash people repeatedly, they get annoyed, get out of their car, come over and slap me ! [/ QUOTE ] Snail, thats because u just cut them up at the roundabout !! [/ QUOTE ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCab Posted November 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 [ QUOTE ] Xenons are designed to be used for normal driving, therefore measures have been taken to reduce the possibility of dazzling other drivers. Whereas, Foglights were designed to be used in situations of reduced visibility, and NOT as normal driving lights. [/ QUOTE ] I think this is what my point was about. I know what each is INTENDED for: but in actual fact, they're both as bad as each other. In fact I find Xenons more blinding than foglamps. Which is why it seems odd to criticise one, and not the other: never mind the intention and legality, what are the effects ? I find xenons a pain in the eyes, like HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 You are quite right, they're both annoying. I suppose the difference is that people who drive with the front fogs on in clear vis are deliberately and intentionally doing so for no good reason other than they think it makes them look good somehow, and that (for me at least) makes being dazzled by these tosspots at least 10 times more annoying than someone with xenons who isn't out to blind you, its just an unfortunate byproduct of the type of light fitted to the car. Saying that, a collegue with xenons on his 330i BMW hates them because although they are good, he keeps getting flashed by oncoming traffic which is mega annoying as theres nothing he can do about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterb Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 [ QUOTE ] Saying that, a collegue with xenons on his 330i BMW hates them because although they are good, he keeps getting flashed by oncoming traffic [/ QUOTE ] Anyone who tries flashing me can have a nice blinding return from my Bi-xenons on main beam! Actually, I don't get flashed at all, so it doesn't seem to be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCab Posted November 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 [ QUOTE ] I suppose the difference is that people who drive with the front fogs on in clear vis are deliberately and intentionally doing so [...] that (for me at least) makes being dazzled by these tosspots at least 10 times more annoying than someone with xenons who isn't out to blind you, its just an unfortunate byproduct [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I guess this is true ("always look for the MOTIVE, Watson"). Up to a point - I suppose you don't go out of your way to turn on xenons just to be 'smart', you just have them on your car or you don't - except that you do (in most cases) go out of your way to have them fitted, presumably also to look cool, unless buying from stock or used. Anyway, they still dazzle me on country roads, sometimes dangerously so. I can't recall being dazzled by foglamps to the point of not being able to see the road for a couple of seconds afterwards, but I have been by a BMW with xenons (not full beam). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foggy Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 [ QUOTE ] I suppose you don't go out of your way to turn on xenons just to be 'smart', you just have them on your car or you don't - except that you do (in most cases) go out of your way to have them fitted, presumably also to look cool, unless buying from stock or used. [/ QUOTE ] That's not necessarily true either, lots of high end cars have them as standard, the S3 certainly does, and at a price that is normally over £1k I doubt that manufacturers fit them because they are 'cooler' than normal lights, but more to do with the fact that they produce a better light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayBeeS3 Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I suppose you don't go out of your way to turn on xenons just to be 'smart', you just have them on your car or you don't - except that you do (in most cases) go out of your way to have them fitted, presumably also to look cool, unless buying from stock or used. [/ QUOTE ] That's not necessarily true either, lots of high end cars have them as standard, the S3 certainly does, and at a price that is normally over £1k I doubt that manufacturers fit them because they are 'cooler' than normal lights, but more to do with the fact that they produce a better light [/ QUOTE ] Totally agree with you on that Foggy I cant imagine that anybody fits Xenons because they are "cool", as a OEM they are (like in S3) standard or an expensive option (in other models) and aftermarket solutions are also quite pricey (if the auto balancing and spray washers are also fitted...) IMHO they just give much better light and when the balancing works correctly they DONT blind anybody. I never had anybody flasing me ever when I had my lights on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 [ QUOTE ] Random thought: why do people get worked up about others using 'driving lamps'/fog lamps, but not xenons ? Seems to me the dazzle/nuisance factor is the same from both. Thre is no evidence it actually causes dangerous distraction but I agree it can be unpleasant (in either case). I'm not all that much against either (I'm not into banning things just because you don't personally like them - anti-foxhunting types take note), though if anything I think xenons are more painful to a dark-adapted eye. But it takes all sorts. The only thing I *don't* understand is people thinking xenons are cool but that foglamps are somehow intrinsically much worse. Either you're opposed to both, or to neither, I'd have thought - otherwise inconsistent, surely ? [/ QUOTE ] Spot on GanS, I agree! (And I have both!) It's just how and when to use either of them. Xenons are fitted with washers because....? Even a very thin layer of dirt can dazzle the oncoming traffic. Problem is folks have to manually operate a switch of some sorts to activate the washers. And there we go: # 1 cant be arsed, his whole car is dirty anyway, as is his windscreen. # 2 always frantically buffs his car and doesn't want to get water spray on the hood/bonnet. # 3 is oblivious of the fact why the washers are there, and often even THAT they are there. Hence the 'bad rap' the Xenons get. Which is BS in fact, because as long as they're kept CLEAN, they are quite okay! As to the wide beam lights (sometimes inaccurately referred to as "fog lights"), they are good for dark (unmarked) roads as they provide much better vision of the side of the road, which often has debris or holes along the edges. Even with Xenons the difference is remarkable. Of course these lights have to be properly adjusted, and only used when necessary/practical. I.e. not in town or on a (lit) highway. Again the ignorant driver who uses them as a fashion item and/or can't be bothered to have them aligned give these wide beams a bad rap. Which again is BS if used properly. I'll end with a quote, proly futile in some cases, but anyway: "The Wide Beam Driving Light features KC's LX2 lens technology. The specially shaped lens projects a much wider beam pattern than standard headlights, providing increase side illumination. The Wide Beam Light may be used along with either the low or high beam head lights for improved night time vision." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 [ QUOTE ] As to the wide beam lights (sometimes inaccurately referred to as "fog lights"), they are good for dark (unmarked) roads as they provide much better vision of the side of the road, which often has debris or holes along the edges. [/ QUOTE ] Err, I don't drive down the sides of the road, I drive down the bit in front of the car, which is lit by the headlights! The FOG lights (yes that is what they are) might light up an area to the side of the front of the car, but I aint driving a foot to the left or right of the front of the car, and anyway at any speed at all anything they could illuminate is going to be too close to do anything about it anyway. Sorry Sven, agree with most of what you post, but you aint going to convince me on this one. FOG lights are switched on in clear conditions mainly by people who think it looks cool to have extra lights illuminated on the front of their car, presumably they think it underlines what a high spec luxury car they have (ha ha) or they've been watching too many night rallys on TV with all the rally cars with their additional driving lights on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 [ QUOTE ] FOG lights are switched on in clear conditions mainly by people who think it looks cool to have extra lights illuminated on the front of their car, presumably they think it underlines what a high spec luxury car they have (ha ha) or they've been watching too many night rallys on TV with all the rally cars with their additional driving lights on. [/ QUOTE ] Duh, that's what I said! Same as folks not cleaning their xenons, which is at least as bad, proly worse. However, "fog lights" is an inaccurate popularisation. But call them what you like, use them or don't, I don't mind. I find them very practical on our (narrow) back roads, esp. the ones w/o markings. So I do use them in those conditions. BTW, did you know that only on (Audi) cars fitted with xenons the wide beams do NOT switch off when you engage high beam? (wheras on non-xenon cars they do switch off automatically). Must be some reason for that.... I don't want to convince anyone, just stating the facts (as I see them). Also I can't be too bothered by some kids playing 'cool' running around town with silly lights. I never look into the light anyway. There are worse things, like the rear fogs (these ARE strictly fog lights, so NOT for use in the rain!!!) which some folks never seem to switch off. With oncoming traffic you can at least look past the lights at your own lane, but if you're stuck behind some moron with the rear fog on you can't do that. Anyway, that's one of my bugs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 [ QUOTE ] There are worse things, like the rear fogs (these ARE strictly fog lights, so NOT for use in the rain!!!) which some folks never seem to switch off. With oncoming traffic you can at least look past the lights at your own lane, but if you're stuck behind some moron with the rear fog on you can't do that. Anyway, that's one of my bugs... [/ QUOTE ] Can't argue with that, rear fogs are an absolute menace used incorrectly, especially if you're stuck behind someone with them on. Likewise how often do you see people in thick fog who do the opposite and don't switch them on!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 [ QUOTE ] Likewise how often do you see people in thick fog who do the opposite and don't switch them on!! [/ QUOTE ] Oh! Unbelievable!!! What's with that? And that's so dangerous... They don't seem to realise someone could overlook them and run into them... (whereas I'm more cautious of others anyway, so I make very sure I'm visible in fog) I think a lot of people use cars like they use VCRs... "oh, I didn't know it could do that!" And even (if not especially) these intellectual types. They work in a university, do all kinds of complicated research and tests, but can't change a lightbulb or even pop the hood... Weird huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebe3 Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Hi all. A very good subject this....i was wondering if anyone could help clarify something for me. When you all talk of Xenons are you refering to the High Intensity Discharge units which use a 600 volt power source?(or thereabouts) The reason i ask is that i am just about to buy some Bulb upgrades for my A3 from my place of work...... They are Manufactured by LUCAS (good quality) and have "XENON" and "30% Brighter than standard bulbs" plastered all over them? Basically, am i about to upgrade to Xenon or not? P.S...They are going to set me back £28 for the whole set of 4, is this a good price?.......... I wait in anticipation!!!! hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foggy Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Whatever you want to call them they are a pain in the arse if you use them when visibility isn't reduced. A guy in a Peugeot followed me down the M4 last night with his fog/driving lights on and he might as well of had is main beam on. Tried letting him know by using my rear fogs, but he either didn't know what I was doing or didn't give a i.e my lights look cool. However, as per normal on the M4 at that time of night the traffic came to a total stop, so I opened my door looked around at him and politely asked him to turn them off, which he did, so he knew he shouldn't of had them on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foggy Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 [ QUOTE ] When you all talk of Xenons are you refering to the High Intensity Discharge units which use a 600 volt power source?(or thereabouts) [/ QUOTE ] Yes See this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 IMO Xenon is NOT interchangable with standard (halogen) bulbs. There are some aftermarket "upgrade kits" available, but it requires some work. Apart from the modifications to start the Xenons (they use very high power at start), you'll need auto levellers to be legal IIRC, or responsible at least. Also washers are mandatory for reasons explained above. Not sure what the Lucas bulbs are on about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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