lenny Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 I have decided to give revo stage 2 a go... but the requirements are a set of sports cats and a CAI... CAI is easy -GruppeM BUT!!!! I cant get a set of sports cats to go with my milltek cat back.... Milltek have stopped making them... Anyone know where I could pick a a set up? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oli Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Milltek stopped making them for a reason - the car performed worse with them on, less torque lower down for instance....Speak to APS, they'll tell you what next to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 What's the damage for the Gruppe M CAI? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenny Posted March 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 [ QUOTE ] Milltek stopped making them for a reason - the car performed worse with them on, less torque lower down for instance....Speak to APS, they'll tell you what next to do [/ QUOTE ] With the Revo stage 2 software there is a 10bhp increase withe the sports cats and CAI.... They say 272bhp+++++ Even milltek told me today they stopped making them cause people fitted the cats without the remap - hence the problems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenny Posted March 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 [ QUOTE ] What's the damage for the Gruppe M CAI? [/ QUOTE ] Sorted it for £385 delivered to the door Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Holy feck! Why did you choose that? Is it a dress up part, or are you just looking for an improvement in engine breathing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenny Posted March 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 [ QUOTE ] Holy feck! Why did you choose that? Is it a dress up part, or are you just looking for an improvement in engine breathing? [/ QUOTE ] Its both... beautiful carbon... + a dyno tested +10bhp ] sexy bit of kit!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oli Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 [ QUOTE ] Even milltek told me today they stopped making them cause people fitted the cats without the remap - hence the problems... [/ QUOTE ] Mmmmmm, Speak to RichardS, there are some good write up's on here somewhere about his with and without the CAT's, and he was mapped. APS stopped putting them on the APS300 conversion beacuse the car went better without them. I think Milltek are fibbing to you, they stopped making them as they made cars perform worse, but they are not likely to admit that are they. But hey its your car...... Maybe someone else makes front pipes and CAT's that actually perform on the R32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenny Posted March 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Even milltek told me today they stopped making them cause people fitted the cats without the remap - hence the problems... [/ QUOTE ] Mmmmmm, Speak to RichardS, there are some good write up's on here somewhere about his with and without the CAT's, and he was mapped. APS stopped putting them on the APS300 conversion beacuse the car went better without them. I think Milltek are fibbing to you, they stopped making them as they made cars perform worse, but they are not likely to admit that are they. But hey its your car...... Maybe someone else makes front pipes and CAT's that actually perform on the R32 [/ QUOTE ] LOL... ok... cheers.. But brakesnake has the milltek manifold back fitted buy aps.... And revo have a code for cats +CAI - which delivers 10 bhp.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhj83 Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 Stick with the Catback. There have been many problems with the full system and Milltek has consequently withdrawn it for the Mk5. There are some individuals who have not had a problem with it however. Also, take note that with a high flow full exhaust system, the power band of the engine will be shifted and increased towards the upper region of the rev range, which results in a loss low down the rev range. This characteristic is good if you spend a lot of time at full throttle. Supersprint is the only reputable company that has a full exhaust system for the Mk5 R32 as Milltek will not be planning to design another one in the near future. I do not know how the supersprint version will affect the power band as I have no experience with them, but the results should be roughly similar as these are what most large bore full exhaust systems do. The larger bore allows for the increased flow 'volume' at the top end but flow 'velocity' is decreased at the bottom end due to lack of exhaust pressure caused by the large bore relative to the amount flow volume. This decrease in flow velocity at the bottom end of the rev range results in reduction of the expulsion of exhaust gases causing loss of power/torque low down the rev range. Ideally, the perfect exhaust system would be one that can vary the size of its bore in proportion to engine speed i.e. higher RPM - larger bore. Much like when someone has blood loss, where blood vessels subsequently constrict to keep blood pressure up to maintain blood flow. That said, it is possible to compensate for the loss in low down delivery by choosing other mods in conjunction with the full exhaust system. Air filters/ intakes, remaps do help to a certain extent, but choosing a cam profile that delivers lower down the rev range would be as far as one can go, I think, without some serious mods like forced induction. Here's the dyno result from Supersprint comparing their full exhaust system to OEM and you can clearly see the loss of low down torque and power, which I personally think is essential in a heavy car used as a daily driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonC Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 [ QUOTE ] Stick with the Catback. There have been many problems with the full system and Milltek has consequently withdrawn it for the Mk5. There are some individuals who have not had a problem with it however. Also, take note that with a high flow full exhaust system, the power band of the engine will be shifted and increased towards the upper region of the rev range, which results in a loss low down the rev range. This characteristic is good if you spend a lot of time at full throttle. Supersprint is the only reputable company that has a full exhaust system for the Mk5 R32 as Milltek will not be planning to design another one in the near future. I do not know how the supersprint version will affect the power band as I have no experience with them, but the results should be roughly similar as these are what most large bore full exhaust systems do. The larger bore allows for the increased flow 'volume' at the top end but flow 'velocity' is decreased at the bottom end due to lack of exhaust pressure caused by the large bore relative to the amount flow volume. This decrease in flow velocity at the bottom end of the rev range results in reduction of the expulsion of exhaust gases causing loss of power/torque low down the rev range. Ideally, the perfect exhaust system would be one that can vary the size of its bore in proportion to engine speed i.e. higher RPM - larger bore. Much like when someone has blood loss, where blood vessels subsequently constrict to keep blood pressure up to maintain blood flow. That said, it is possible to compensate for the loss in low down delivery by choosing other mods in conjunction with the full exhaust system. Air filters/ intakes, remaps do help to a certain extent, but choosing a cam profile that delivers lower down the rev range would be as far as one can go, I think, without some serious mods like forced induction. Here's the dyno result from Supersprint comparing their full exhaust system to OEM and you can clearly see the loss of low down torque and power, which I personally think is essential in a heavy car used as a daily driver. [/ QUOTE ] Great write up; nice one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrakeSnake Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 mine has the Cats and Manifolds with a custom remap... Trust me, it doesn't perform worse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhj83 Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 [ QUOTE ] mine has the Cats and Manifolds with a custom remap... Trust me, it doesn't perform worse... [/ QUOTE ] RS32 and I did have some losses I guess I wouldn't say it's performs worse but rather that the power band characteristic changed. Overall, it is still a performance gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrakeSnake Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 The band did change. With the CAI, cams, manifold, cats and cat back, the custom remap made a world of diffence. Peak torque appears about 3500 rpm now and peak power at around 6700 rpm, The engine really pulls strong after the 3.5k mark. I'd agree below 2500 to 3000 rpm, it is no more effective than a stock .:R, and probably slightly less than a remapped cat back car, but above the 3.5k, and especially top end, all the mods combine to it pulling extremely hard now where as before it used to run out of wind. This is all shown by the 2 RR's it's been on, and where as APS did say they had seen a few with losses low down, they also said there were those with predominantly gains. It's all down to driving style at the end of the day. My .:R is a weekend car, and whereas it can still be used effectiviely as a daily driver, it very more feels the part of a racer now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenny Posted March 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 Yes, yes, yes..... I have read the above loads of times..... but I still want to give the sports cats a go.... Not that fussed on the manifolds... Now does anyone know where I can get a set? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlhj83 Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 Although you don't want to fit the manifolds, you would still have to change the downpipes to larger ones when you get the cats. AMD apparently still sell them on their website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenny Posted March 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Cheers!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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