Road Toll trials are a comming.....

[News_Stig]

From the News section.......

The Government has confirmed that road tolling scheme trials will begin in early 2009. It is currently recruiting drivers to take part in its tests.

The trials could result in charges of up to £1.30 a mile to drive on the country’s most congested roads. The system being tested involves fitting a GPS tracking device to the vehicles of volunteer drivers.

This system will automatically deduct payments from a specified account, depending on when and where the cars travel. Drivers would be able to check their balance and statements online.

The trials will take place at four locations around the UK with BT, Trafficmaster and T-Systems – the German company responsible for collecting autobahn tolls – reportedly involved.

Previous Government statements suggested ministers had abandoned the controversial road tolling plans in the wake of the financial crisis and Gordon Brown’s unpopularity in opinion polls.

But yesterday Paul Clark, the Transport Minister, admitted the trials would proceed. “If we sit back and do nothing you can be sure that economic growth will lead to gridlock,” the minister insisted. Clark said the trials would help create a “tool” for local authorities to adopt.

In the short-term, the automatic tolling system would be used to collect existing road charges, including the London Congestion Charge. It could also be used for paying to drive in new express lanes on motorways and crossing toll bridges.

Further into the future, government-funded feasibility studies have recommended that the system be used to charge for using all roads at varying rates.

The Department for Transport (DfT) has appointed four companies to test the road-tolling systems, according to a report in the Times. The small-scale trials will cost £4 million.

Each week, we hear different stories about Road Charging schemes, with the proposed M1 dual occupancy lane scheme being scrapped in favour of it just being another lane. The Manchester Centre Charge being scrapped too (possibly).

Any trial recruits on TSN? What are your thoughts?

[m4ttm4son]

This system will automatically deduct payments from a specified account, depending on when and where the cars travel. Drivers would be able to check their balance and statements online.

I don't like this bit, for starters. Seems like a small matter that, if it went wrong, would go VERY wrong and be a huge PITA to correct.

[Soapsuds]

But yesterday Paul Clark, the Transport Minister, admitted the trials would proceed. “If we sit back and do nothing you can be sure that economic growth will lead to gridlock,” the minister insisted

Is he taking the pi55?? What economic growth.....

[D1MAC]

What a surprise - a silly idea thought up by retards (that was supposed to have been dropped) rears it's ugly head again :mad:

The simple fact of the matter is that the present Government wants two things - money & control.

Control brings many benefits to the minds of the mini Hitlers who want this, plus it allows further elements to be added down the line - the system could but currently isn't planned to monitor speed. Hmm, sweep stake on how long before that gets added!

Money - Well we have a bloated public sector that wants more money, a government that wants to wholly control the lives of it's subjects. Plus a little thing named the credit crunch where clever Gordy has pledged to spend, spend, spend and where fortunes have been promised to banks (not all of which will come back).

Where's the money coming from? Some from future generations and as for the rest - hey presto, here's road pricing.

As for the Manchester element, don't bet a dime on it disappearing. The council will force this through by hook or crook. They're currently spending public money on an advertising campaign to convince people how wonderful the charge will be (pics of people saying 'I won't have to pay when I go shopping', 'I won't have to pay when I go to the match' etc - no but you will have to pay every single day when you have to get in work for 9am FFS). Yet, I don't see any any advertising campaigns pointing out the severe wrongs of the proposal . I wonder if there's even any public money available to prevent this obvious bias by allowing a balanced view.

They will drive it through at some point, even if the 'referendum' says no.

The upshot of all of this for me personally (and no doubt lots of other people as well) is that I'll probably end up paying something like £5 Manc toll plus another £5+ road pricing every day, just for the joys of trying to earn a crust. So, should I ask my employer for a £200 - £300 a month payrise or should I just shun Manchester as a place altogether and spend all of my time on gridlocked local A & B roads?

This is all really going to help a fragile regional & national economy isn't it - just beggars belief :confused:

Edited November 5, 2008 by D1MAC

[bullett]

What I don't understand is what sort of nutter is going to choose to pay more? Unless they are not actually going to charge in which case whats the point as it's not real money so won't actually effect the drivers. Also do you want the gov to know your location 24/7?

I guess the idea behind this is to stop people driving at peak times by pushing up costs to do so. Do they actually think we choose to sit in a jam on the M25 at 8am? Would it not be easier and cheaper to just bung 2p on a ltr of petrol? the more you drive and the less efficient your car the more you pay?

The way to stop congestion would be to encourage homeworking, provide alternate transport that is cheap, convienient and easy to use or even to build more roads... but of course there is no money to be made there.

This Gov is too keen on the stick and not keen enough on the carrot.

[bullett]

just to add. I do work from home. I only really travel on business so I would expense this, the company would charge the customer and they will charge the public.

[theduisbergkid]

What a f*cking lousy idea. Really. Its going to be another tax on motorists who have no alternative as our public transport is a farce, raising revenue for this government who are bereft of good ideas and are incapable of organising a p1ssup in a brewery. I'm going to buy a car in Poland, insure it there, and drive around on foreign plate and b0ll0cks to the system.

I'm off to suck my own manstick......

[Mook]

Never mind the idea - WTF is that avatar Duisberg

[patently]

Gosh - until now I used to enjoy traffic jams. I used to listen to local news to hear where the really good congestion was, and then go and join it. Just for kicks!

Now, I'll have to look for ways to make my journeys quicker and easier, instead. I would never have decided to do that if they hadn't announced a road toll.

--------------------------------------------------------

Do they really think we're that daft?

[Mook]

I'd like to volunteer for the trial Then I can give the govt money to take part in something they want to test and hey, if it doesn't work, then at least they've got some more money out of me.

Oh sod it, I'll just start paying the rest of my income direct to the govt and be done with it

[D1MAC]

I'd like to volunteer for the trial Then I can give the govt money to take part in something they want to test and hey, if it doesn't work, then at least they've got some more money out of me.

Or try and nobble the test?

Oh sod it, I'll just start paying the rest of my income direct to the govt and be done with it

That crossed my mind as well. How long before we go to the state equivalent of tipping up wages to mum & dad and then getting a bit of spends in return - Maybe 2015 is the new 1950

[patently]

I'd like to volunteer for the trial Then I can give the govt money to take part in something they want to test and hey, if it doesn't work, then at least they've got some more money out of me.

What will the application form say?

|X| Tick here if you think you have too much spare cash and would like to help the Government work out how to extract even more money out of you all.

| | Tick here if you are intelligent enough to string together a coherent ... errm .... thingy with words in it ...

|X| Tick here if you would like to be considered for a Cabinet post when there is one available.

[Mook]

Can I tick all the boxes?

[patently]

No. The second box and the third box are mutually contradictory.

[Biscuits]

It all seems quite expensive. The GPS box will need to be removable, so it can be connected to a phone line (not everyone has broad band) or it will have a SIM card and GSM modem built-in (more expense).

It then needs to be mounted somewhere in the car it can see the sky, so will be on the dash??? NICE ! I hate having a GPS scamera detector there, definatly don't want a tax-box there too.

The other thing is, it will need to be hardwired into the ignition circuit, otherwise you could just forget to switch it on... or cover the dam thing with Bacofoil to jam the GPS.

Would be interested to find out how/what the 'box' looks and works.

Feckin tax-the-arse-off-Britain

:smashfreak:

[Mook]

It then needs to be mounted somewhere in the car it can see the sky, so will be on the dash??? NICE ! I hate having a GPS scamera detector there, definatly don't want a tax-box there too.

Not that I'm endorsing the black box thing, but you won't need it mounted on the dash. Trackers (normally hidden under the dash) use GPS and have an internally mountable aerial that mag mounts either behind the dash or between the roof lining and the roof. I use a Racelogic box for track stuff and that uses the same type of GPS aerial.

I still don't get the volunteer thing though. Muppets

[Teacake]

Well, I was going to come in here and launch into a big spittle-flecked rant on the subject, but the previous posters have said all that needs to be said, far more coherently than I would have.

D1MAC, Mook, patently, TDK, bullett, can you form a political party, and can I join?

[Mook]

No problem - just send your minimum donation of £50K via Paypal and you're signed up. Like every other political party, we promise to only spend it on beer, pizza and strippers

[patently]

Oh, and we'll need to meet up on your yacht.

[Mook]

I sold that to fund the black box and the road toll fees

[Teacake]

No problem - just send your minimum donation of £50K via Paypal and you're signed up.

So about the same as a year's road charges then. Seems like a bargain. What's the catch?

[shao_khan]

Fantastic idea - intended to drive poeple from the roads onto public transport, very good thought process, except one minor little detail - outside of any major connurbation transport is cr@p.

Take Milton Keynes. JOurney from Bletchley to Blakelands (VW HQ). By car to get to work for 0800 - 15 mins. By Bus - 1hr 45mins and 1 or 2 changes..... Well that'll be an effective use of my time then, spend an extra 3hours per day in 'work'.

From where I live I can walk tot he main rail station quicker than the bus gets there - its a 40 min walk, 5 mins in the car, 55mins on a bus last time I tried.

So as I said great idea to force people out of cars, but what the hell are they going to hae as an alternative, the work / life balance is already proportionally wrong and against a sucessful family unit for many people, double there commute time and what you going to get?

[Dave]

And it also causes social problems Shao,

The rich can use the roads and get on with life and business.. the rest? tough. use public transport or suffer!!

Orwellian state?.. we're getting there.

[Mook]

Or it'll force people off the roads that were originally built to relieve traffic in built up areas (at least I'm fairly sure that's what motorways, dual carriageways and bypasses are built for - maybe I'm just being stupid).

Which completely defeats the object of having the motorways and dual carriageways, forcing people back onto smaller, more populated roads, leading to more road accidents involving pedestrians, which is another reason for building dual carriageways or bypasses to start with.

I use the M6 past Birmingham probably 10 times a year and always use the toll road, because I know it'll be clear. It only costs £4.50 each way, which is fine for infrequent use, but if I had to do it every other day or only once a week, I'd seriously consider using the regular M6 or A roads.

Then you've got this muppet comment from the govt:

Paul Clark, the Transport Minister, admitted the trials would proceed. "If we sit back and do nothing you can be sure that economic growth will lead to gridlock," the minister insisted.

Right, so rather than keeping people on the motorways and dual carriageways, you'll force them onto other roads. And don't try to say it won't happen, because you bloody well know it will.

Can we have someone in govt that can think stuff througha bit further than getting out a headline please...

[theduisbergkid]

I honestly think that the 3 main political parties are missing a trick by not having a better transport policy, just think, just about everyone in the UK is f*cked off - VED rates, fuel tax escalator, scameras, and above all the lack of decent public transport*. Having a government who puts just 50% of the 'profit' from motoring straight back into public transport would relieve the road infrastructure, be better for the environment, and above all serve the general public better.

Still, if one party gives us a financial fisting, the others follow suit, and we have no choice but to accept.

*Went to London last week, £90 for an off-peak ticket from Leicester, left after the rush hour, still had to stand up. I've seen better infrastructure in China.