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DHA
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I'm with Mac.

Yes, my iPhone 4 drops bars when held in a certain way, but it's not lost it's signal or dropped a call... That means it does what it says on the tin. Until I have a problem with the actual function of the phone I am happy.

I don't know why people are getting so worked up about bar level. On my Nokia E71 I often sit on the beach and get one bar. I can still send text and take calls.. So what does 1 bar out of 5 actually mean?

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I'm with Mac.

Yes, my iPhone 4 drops bars when held in a certain way, but it's not lost it's signal or dropped a call... That means it does what it says on the tin. Until I have a problem with the actual function of the phone I am happy.

I don't know why people are getting so worked up about bar level. On my Nokia E71 I often sit on the beach and get one bar. I can still send text and take calls.. So what does 1 bar out of 5 actually mean?

Your right Dave the bar's mean nothing at all, but losing calls as Chris prove's about is a design flaw.

Mac himself for all of his defence and bravado in defending the phone doesn't have one as he confirmed earlier it doesn't work for him as well as the 3GS as he is a lefty.:P

Yes the issue with dropped calls could be for any number of reasons software being one of them or as many expect a hardware issue on the phone. But as I mentioned earlier it is meant to be a premium device that should be beyond reproach that carries with it a significant premium in both the initial charge for the phone and its ongoing costs compared to rivals. Will it be damaging, I doubt it but it is news worthy for the techy amongst us at the very least anyway.

Apple need to be careful in both pricing and perception, its a long way to fall after all. I've just finished reading about the new Mac Mini just now, nice little product but its stupidly expensive for what it is, from a magazine that normally praises Apple products the last sentence says 'Asking this much for it, though, is an insult.'

We all like the products as we have mentioned before 'they just work' and they do, but when they don't or if the don't really offer anything to show for the premium, the brand will suffer, only slightly mind. :grin:

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Even Engadget are saying they're a little perplexed by the issue.

This may turn out to be a HW issue - you never know, Apple's SW fix may not actually fix the problem. The real problem of course being dropped calls, not the signal reporting. One is a symptom, one is a problem.

The stuff that gets on my tits is the constant conjecture based on little information. You tend to get it on both sides of the fence don't you? Person A *loves* product and will never see issue, Person B hates product and will never see positives.

Simon Pegg tweeted something a while ago which I quite liked, and thought was apt:

Why not spend your effort loving the products you do use rather than slating the ones you don't.

Couldn't agree more.

The 'everyone is up in arms!' thing also is incredibly misleading. What have they shifted now, 2.5 million units? Really? 2.5 million phones don't work? I'm not convinced.

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Mac himself for all of his defence and bravado in defending the phone doesn't have one as he confirmed earlier it doesn't work for him as well as the 3GS as he is a lefty.

You've misunderstood my point, or, of course, I haven't worded it correctly*. I'm not defending the phone as such.

My issue with the arguments is extremism. Apple is CRAP! How DARE they! Apple is WONDERFUL, of COURSE there's nothing wrong with it.

Neither argument stands up to scrutiny, and because of that I'm willing to give Apple a chance to fix the issue. The issue which, let's be clear, every tech site says is affecting a vast minority of users.

You're right, I'm a leftie, and the iPhone 4 I had originally dropped calls. The ones in the shop I tried, while not dropping calls, did demonstrate the signal issue.

So that's why I chose to continue using my 3g, rather jumping right now to the '4. Incidentally, I have one in my draw in the office - maybe I should try it?

I'm not a fanboy of Apple. I *am* a fanboy of good technology. I'll go where the tech is, because I have massive flexibility of choice, and because I love technology.

Apple has produced some simply fantastic tech in the last few years - anyone who doesn't think that's true.... well, I'd like to be as unsuccessful as Apple.

I feel exactly the same way about these kind of arguments when they're leveraged against companies like Microsoft too. Microsoft gets so much crap thrown at it that often is massively unsubstantiated.

It's like wow, you achieve this. DAMM! What I wanted was this+5%! You gits! Therefore the 'product' is crap even though there's nothing on the market to touch it.

Unsubstantiated, innovation capping, twaddle. Regardless of who it's aimed at.

*Yes, I am trying to learn some people skills :P

Edited by Mac
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And mine shipped today but the estimated delivery date is the 26th! Where's is coming from? The Moon??

Daz, I find Apple stated delivery dates are very pessimistic typically. Usually I get the products a week-ish before the stated delivery dates. Not sure that would tie in with the '4 though.

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Originally the shipping date was the 16th with estimate delivery on the 22nd. Today I got an email stating that the delivery date had slipped by 4 days due to shipping from an alternative warehouse and then this evening I get an email saying it's been shipped and delivery on the 26th. :confused:

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Apple need to be careful in both pricing and perception, its a long way to fall after all. I've just finished reading about the new Mac Mini just now, nice little product but its stupidly expensive for what it is, from a magazine that normally praises Apple products the last sentence says 'Asking this much for it, though, is an insult.'

The Mac Mini is a good point. I have said before that I have no brand loyalty and I mean it. The Mac Mini should be something I might be interested in, but I wouldn't buy one at anywhere near the money they want.

However, the problem is bigger than that. This time they have royally fecked up by not listening. The first model was rubbish. The second model isn't, but they have decided they'll feck you for the privilege of getting one. It just isn't worth anything like the price and they have upset an awful lot of diehard Mac fans with it. People who bought the original and knew they'd been had but still held on to see the new one - they now know they're being conned again and most won't take it again.

They did it with the Airbook too. Lovely looking thing, almost a masterclass in design - but severely compromised on power and life. It got to the point where it became a bit of a laughable device. You paid how much for that little?

I thought I'd got away with the 4G. For two weeks I had no issues. Now it is compromising my work and I am putting it down and picking up the 3GS to make calls because I can't bank on how the 4G will act. Will I keep the call or not? How the feck can I conduct business like that? It's ridiculous.

I'll stick with it because I know the case resolves the problem and if the phone could actually keep 100% of my calls on the line then it is utterly without competition in my opinion. It is super fast, astonishingly well built and everything about it smacks of quality - but it's a fecking telephone and I don't want to lose calls on it through no fault of my own or the network!

I think this is going to bite Apple hard, especially if they don't resolve it quickly. Steve Jobs response is the stuff of lunacy. The man is on another planet and needs to pull his head out of his arse. Genius he might be but he still demonstrates his total lack of tact and customer relations at every opportunity.

I don't really think of it from the perspective of paying X for a premium product and expecting anything more than I'd get elsewhere. My choice, my problem. But, is it really too much to ask it to just fecking work?

p.s. and here is the difficult bit to swallow - contrast all of that with the iPad. A truly awesome device that I couldn't do without now. Why do they have to be such inconsistent tw*ts? They have found a new market with the iPad and exploited it brilliantly whilst giving the consumer something that is amazing to use. Well done Apple, now please can I use my phone to call someone?

Edited by MrMe
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I agree with you and I'm 10 days away from my upgrade being due and I'm not looking at anything else to get.

But I am a little annoyed that maybe just maybe the reason this issue wasn't found in test was because of the secrecy with which the test the products, I don't know. I'd rather it as I'm sure you were that it was the new apps that we were discussing rather than a potential flaw with the product.

I can see where Riz comes from even if it is a little misguided and he does have a point on a few things but I guess there is a way to discuss these things and like your people skills we all need a bit of help sometimes. :grin::P

If it wasn't for the fact my tech budget* has been slashed due to a bundle of joy in a few weeks time I'd have got the phone and an iPad already but hey there are more important things in life, well so I'm told anyway. :rolleyes::grin:

*I'm married to an accountant

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The company I work for had a number of test units - we still have them. Of the people who I've spoken to who had access to the test units not a single one picked up on the issue.

To be fair, they were not allowed off campus with them so I expect that would limit their use.

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Have we done this yet :grin:

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg&hl=en_US&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg&hl=en_US&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Or this :roflmao:

afe13d256ff5a4ca7b91e43cf6a4fe09.png

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It's doing my head in now.

Lost another call today, this time to a client.

It happens anywhere that I am on 2 bars or less. The call just drops out and terminates immediately

then put some tape on it for ****s sake.

arent you as guilty as the other people causing a big hoo haa? they know a piece of rubber or tape will fix, but still insist on crying when it drops a call (which is naff all to do with the software, its the wifi antenna shorting with the gsm antenna)

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re. mac mini - for 99% of users, the new one offers no benefit.... twice as fast graphics as nvidia 9400m is still very slow compared to state of the art. so running aaa games is dire.

most people use them as a media player/home hub kinda thing.

well the 2008/2009 mac mini is fine. why do you need more power than to display full hd video at 30fps....you dont. the cpu is virtually the same and people arent stupid and will google how to upgrade their memory. so i agree, they've ****ed up.

i'd expect it to be at £499 pretty sharpish, but they'll modify something slightly so it seems they're not backing down on price.

ipad price point is good. funny how the iphone 4 is more expensive as the display/case of the ipad costs more to manufacture than the cheap gsm/3g chips which differentiate the iphone from an ipad wifi. apple always try and make a killing on devices they know will shift in volume. ipad was a bit of a newbie to market so they're going for user base first, then they'll beef up the price with ipad X ..

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The Mac Mini is a good point. I have said before that I have no brand loyalty and I mean it. The Mac Mini should be something I might be interested in, but I wouldn't buy one at anywhere near the money they want.

However, the problem is bigger than that. This time they have royally fecked up by not listening. The first model was rubbish. The second model isn't, but they have decided they'll feck you for the privilege of getting one. It just isn't worth anything like the price and they have upset an awful lot of diehard Mac fans with it. People who bought the original and knew they'd been had but still held on to see the new one - they now know they're being conned again and most won't take it again.

They did it with the Airbook too. Lovely looking thing, almost a masterclass in design - but severely compromised on power and life. It got to the point where it became a bit of a laughable device. You paid how much for that little?

I thought I'd got away with the 4G. For two weeks I had no issues. Now it is compromising my work and I am putting it down and picking up the 3GS to make calls because I can't bank on how the 4G will act. Will I keep the call or not? How the feck can I conduct business like that? It's ridiculous.

I'll stick with it because I know the case resolves the problem and if the phone could actually keep 100% of my calls on the line then it is utterly without competition in my opinion. It is super fast, astonishingly well built and everything about it smacks of quality - but it's a fecking telephone and I don't want to lose calls on it through no fault of my own or the network!

I think this is going to bite Apple hard, especially if they don't resolve it quickly. Steve Jobs response is the stuff of lunacy. The man is on another planet and needs to pull his head out of his arse. Genius he might be but he still demonstrates his total lack of tact and customer relations at every opportunity.

I don't really think of it from the perspective of paying X for a premium product and expecting anything more than I'd get elsewhere. My choice, my problem. But, is it really too much to ask it to just fecking work?

p.s. and here is the difficult bit to swallow - contrast all of that with the iPad. A truly awesome device that I couldn't do without now. Why do they have to be such inconsistent tw*ts? They have found a new market with the iPad and exploited it brilliantly whilst giving the consumer something that is amazing to use. Well done Apple, now please can I use my phone to call someone?

There are bugs in iphone4 btw, affecting all devices. not sure why this doesnt get a lot of press. basically its a very good idea to backup/restore every week until the issues are fixed.

this will alleviate some of the problems such as degradation

same prob with ios4 on 3gs/3g.

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There are bugs in iphone4 btw, affecting all devices. not sure why this doesnt get a lot of press. basically its a very good idea to backup/restore every week until the issues are fixed.

this will alleviate some of the problems such as degradation

same prob with ios4 on 3gs/3g.

I'm new to all this itunes / Apple stuff (as you may have gathered from other posts!!)

Do you mean sync the phone weekly?

If it goes wrong and has to be replaced or I lose it, can I upload everything to a new phone including messages?

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hi i meant bugs in ios4 not just on iphone 4.

not syncing - full backup and restore.

in itunes you can backup your phone by selecting your device on the left hand side in the devices section and then right clicking. select backup from there. this will save your apps, contact settings, messages etc

you can then select restore at any time to copy all that back to your phone.

doing a full restore alleviates a lot of the current ios4 bugs

with iphones its always a good idea to backup them anyway in case you are unlucky and it goes into recovery mode.

the backups save everything including messages/call history/apps

you can browse them on a pc with 3rd party software

another quick fix is a reboot. press and hold home button and sleep button for a few seconds then slide the power thingy to turn the actual phone off completely. when you then turn it back on you'll see apple logo then it will boot.

nice thing about iphones is they are quick to setup from a backup gone through 3 iphones last week killing them repeatdly testing stuff and on average takes 30 seconds to get a new phone going (not much stuff on them)

bad thing about iphones is being forced to use certain software. personally think ios3 was better but hey ho people want folders and multitasking. both of which are a bit of a crap implemenation at present i'd say.

am sure they'll fix though.....

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well the 2008/2009 mac mini is fine. why do you need more power than to display full hd video at 30fps....you dont. the cpu is virtually the same and people arent stupid and will google how to upgrade their memory. so i agree, they've ****ed up.

I have to agree - I bought a mini at the start of the year and can't see what real improvements have been made with the new one. It was small enough already and the later models you could upgrade to 8Gb memory anyway. Mine runs as a server so not bothered about the graphics either.

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I'm new to all this itunes / Apple stuff (as you may have gathered from other posts!!)

Do you mean sync the phone weekly?

If it goes wrong and has to be replaced or I lose it, can I upload everything to a new phone including messages?

Yes - when you sync with iTunes it backs up your phone. This back up can be restored to a new phone and puts all your settings and messages back on.

Back up of my ipad seems to take for ever, loving it so far - have become a comic geek at 35!:eek:

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hi i meant bugs in ios4 not just on iphone 4.

not syncing - full backup and restore.

in itunes you can backup your phone by selecting your device on the left hand side in the devices section and then right clicking. select backup from there. this will save your apps, contact settings, messages etc

you can then select restore at any time to copy all that back to your phone.

doing a full restore alleviates a lot of the current ios4 bugs

with iphones its always a good idea to backup them anyway in case you are unlucky and it goes into recovery mode.

the backups save everything including messages/call history/apps

you can browse them on a pc with 3rd party software

another quick fix is a reboot. press and hold home button and sleep button for a few seconds then slide the power thingy to turn the actual phone off completely. when you then turn it back on you'll see apple logo then it will boot.

nice thing about iphones is they are quick to setup from a backup gone through 3 iphones last week killing them repeatdly testing stuff and on average takes 30 seconds to get a new phone going (not much stuff on them)

bad thing about iphones is being forced to use certain software. personally think ios3 was better but hey ho people want folders and multitasking. both of which are a bit of a crap implemenation at present i'd say.

am sure they'll fix though.....

Nice one, cheers+++

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Initial comments on OS4 (on a 3GS):

- Rather than doing it as soon as it came out, I've waited until today to download it, so the download was quick - 300MB+ in under 15 minutes, so no problem there.

- The very-dated-looking "earth" lock screen can be got rid of

- Combined mailboxes - what a joy - I run 3 mailboxes on my iPhone and having them all separate in the previous OS was my biggest criticism. Support for multiple Exchange servers is also great

- Double tapping the home button to view all open apps works, but it's a two handed operation - one to hold and one to tap. They could do with some kind of option like you get under Windows where you can set the double click time (or gap between them)

- Getting rid of running apps is clunky - click and hold til they all wobble, then click the exit icon. Not sure why they need to stay running once you've finished with them, but they all seem to. OK, so launching them takes an 'n'th of a second, rather than half a second. I can wait that long. I guess some people can't.

Doesn't really seem to do much more, other than look pretty, although I'm sure someone will pipe up with other stuff that I don't use.

Edited by Mook
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then put some tape on it for ****s sake.

arent you as guilty as the other people causing a big hoo haa? they know a piece of rubber or tape will fix, but still insist on crying when it drops a call (which is naff all to do with the software, its the wifi antenna shorting with the gsm antenna)

I'm making a big hoo-haa because it is only right to be honest. I don't want anyone on here to read biased reports of an IPhone from me, go buy one and then realise that some people can only say something is useless when they don't own it. It's the same with cars. How many people love a car until the day they get rid and then it becomes a bag of shite?

I didn't have any problems at first, I do now. Whether I choose to put tape in it or not is irrelevant. People still deserve to get honest feedback on something they might go spend their hard earned cash on.

I don't think anyone is "guilty", unless reporting the facts is an admission of guilt.

Edited by MrMe
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