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EU Regs - Black Boxes coming for new vehicles?


Paul
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The "no" vote at the bottom of that article is at 84% right now.

 

It will come though and nothing anyone says will change it.  The halcyon days of the motor enthusiast and everyday performance car owner are gone.

 

If they're standard when new then how can anyone opt out without facing a massive insurance premium hike?  Disabling one when new will inevitably mean that when the insurer asks to interrogate the data when you have a crash or get points....well how will anyone get away with that?  They won't.

 

Forget doing more than 75 mph or thereabouts.  Forget country lane blasts of fun. 

 

It is more of the nanny state and I deplore it.

 

But it is going to happen and we'd better get used to it very soon indeed by the sounds of it.

Edited by NewNiceMrMe
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And where does the rule come from?  Brussels.

 

Do we want it to happen?

 

The "no" vote at the bottom of that article is at 84% right now.

 

Evidently not.

 

Is there anything we can do to ensure our wishes are taken account of?  No.  

 

Will they just go ahead despite the fact that the voting public don't want it?  Of course they will.

 

 

 

But UKIP are racist so that's that, we won't do anything about the EU...  :coffee:

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Nobody wants it, nobody wants speed cameras but we have them and this is all Brussels when our own government has researched and wanted this for a long time anyway.

 

We can blame a lot on the EU but a lot of what gets forced on us our own government wants regardless of if we would be in Europe.

 

As a keen motorist and loving cars I fear this sort of development, but when I see so many people diving like complete muppets so often these days and the roads being so busy in this congested island we live in there is a part of me (very tiny) that can see the benefit of such technology on the general standard of motoring. 

 

Oh and that I will be buying a nice classic / current car to use at the weekend before they get to be at a premium price. +++

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As a positive for the black box, there was a case of a Ford fester having broken down on the A1 between Grantham and Stamford (Colsterworth area I think) and the people and car were on the grassy verge.

 

An XJ Jag (previous 3 box gen) was being driven by an over the drink limit bloke.  His wife or colleague was also in the car.  The car ploughed into the fester at some ridiculous speed and killed either the fester driver and or all the fester occupants even though they were NOT in the car.  There were no witnesses and  although the driver was over the limit it wasn't until the Police interrogated the car's black box that they found it was doing over 100 mph on that stretch of A1.  That stretch of A1 has lots of undulations, curves and is a lovely bit of road, unless over the limit and way over the speed limit.  :(

 

So, in the case of accidents, then a black box can help get to the facts of how the car was being driven.

 

 

 

 

However, I still don't like the thought of having more Big Brother watching us.

Edited by cruiser647
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So, in the case of accidents, then a black box can help get to the facts of how the car was being driven.

 

Fiesta driver is still dead though.  Hasn't helped him much.

 

And as Rachel says, this data is already collected by the car.  If this example proves anything, it proves that you don't need the data to be transmitted regularly to a central station to be passed on to your insurer or anyone else who asks for it.  

 

 

Nobody wants it, nobody wants speed cameras but we have them and this is all Brussels when our own government has researched and wanted this for a long time anyway.

 

We can blame a lot on the EU but a lot of what gets forced on us our own government wants regardless of if we would be in Europe.

 

Misses the point entirely.  If we get angry enough about something HMG has done, we can throw them out.  OK, it's not going to happen about speed cameras or black boxes, but it does happen when they go off the rails far enough - see the 1997 & 2010 elections.  When do I get to vote the EU president out of office?

 

Also, let's assume that this is actually a good thing and we wanted it.  What you're saying is that that HMG has wanted it for a long time - so why hasn't it happened?  Because we handed over jurisdiction for this to the EU.  So we couldn't implement this even if we wanted it, we have had to wait for the EU to get round to it.  

 

So there you have the effect of the EU; a body that we (by and large) can't influence, that we can't object to, which delays the introduction of stuff we want, and which foists stuff we don't want on us.  

 

when I see so many people diving like complete muppets so often these days and the roads being so busy in this congested island we live in there is a part of me (very tiny) that can see the benefit of such technology on the general standard of motoring. 

 

Again, missing the point.  The move towards automated enforcement has led to a reduction in actual day-to-day enforcement because road traffic patrols are no longer needed.  But the automated enforcement encourages a tickbox approach to driving ("Am I within the speed limit? Yes, OK I can stop concentrating now") and a selective approach to compliance ("There are no cameras to spot me using my handheld phone, so I'm ok to make this call").  Those are imho the root causes of the standard of driving you've noted (which I do agree with).

 

So these automated enforcement things are the cause of the muppets, not the solution to them :ffs:

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I disagree, the studies show that those drivers that know their driving is being monitored drive better. Look at young drivers who already have black boxes and they are show to be more aware of their standard of driving and how it can influence them when normally they just aren't bothered.

 

I'm being devils advocate to a degree because I don't want the EU to influence and make policy more than it does today at all. But its not quite as bad as everyone makes out. There has been a significant benefit to being part of the EU and our governments having to move forwards on things that they haven't wanted to that have benefited everyone.

 

There is obviously the counter to that on the things that are the drawbacks of being in the EU but at the moment via UKIP as you mentioned them there is only ever talk about the disadvantages and not the benefits that it can sometimes bring. +++

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I won't be voting UKIP.

 

But I do wish we were out of the EU.

 

That is a recently formed opinion.  I'm just sick of the widened bureaucracy now.

 

However, don't forget we'll get a referendum on that if Dave and his mates stay in power.  Which they won't.

Edited by NewNiceMrMe
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I disagree, the studies show that those drivers that know their driving is being monitored drive better. Look at young drivers who already have black boxes and they are show to be more aware of their standard of driving and how it can influence them when normally they just aren't bothered.

 

Yes, their standard of driving as measured by the black box improves when the black box is present.  Just as measuring the performance standards of hospitals against benchmarks results in their scores relative to the benchmarks improving, and measuring crime rates & judging police forces against them results in measured crime rates falling.  But that is because people dance to the tune of what is being measured. 

 

 

There is obviously the counter to that on the things that are the drawbacks of being in the EU but at the moment via UKIP as you mentioned them there is only ever talk about the disadvantages and not the benefits that it can sometimes bring.  +++

 

The disadvantages are real and are a direct consequence of EU membership.

 

The advantages are a result of being near Europe and being able to trade with it.  They are always held up as being an advantage of EU membership, but they are not.  Yes, they come bundled with EU membership, but they are not exclusive to EU membership.  Norway and Switzerland seem to trade with the EU successfully.

 

If we left the EU, would BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Miele, Renault, LVMH et al really let their governments put trade barriers up between us and them?  Seriously?  

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On the wider question of the EU, I have mostly been pro-Europe. However my vision of a European Alliance seems to be further and further away from the bloated, beaurocratic reality. A healthy UK, Germany and France working together could be a strong axis providing a much needed counterweight to Russia on one side and the USA on the other.

 

As already mentioned, the trade arguments are nonsense. My real fear is that a UK not involved in the EU would become even more of a USA lapdog and drift further away from Europe diplomatically. On the grand geo-political map such a drift would be fraught with danger.

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On the wider question of the EU, I have mostly been pro-Europe. However my vision of a European Alliance seems to be further and further away from the bloated, beaurocratic reality. A healthy UK, Germany and France working together could be a strong axis providing a much needed counterweight to Russia on one side and the USA on the other.

 

+++ +++

 

 

My real fear is that a UK not involved in the EU would become even more of a USA lapdog and drift further away from Europe diplomatically. On the grand geo-political map such a drift would be fraught with danger.

 

Yes, I can see that risk.  Mind you, being outside the EU would take a lot of the sting out of relations between us; at present we are forever arguing about why we shouldn't have to do x or y, if we were out then we could focus on the things we do want to do 

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I sincerely, truly with all my heart, hope that is another famous NNMM prediction. Because the alternative is genuinely terrifying.

 

It is a non-sporting prediction.  That means it will, unfortunately (can't believe I'm saying that), come true.

 

Seriously, outside of lots of little 'own worlds' I'm afraid I see the masses that are "Joe Public" putting them into power.

 

I hate this government.  For the lack of public sector cuts, despite the promises, for the absolutely blinkered view of the UK, for the ignorance of it outside of London, for the frankly ludicrous notion of bedroom tax and for the absolutely woeful lack of real change to our banking systems (accepting their influence, but it's still not enough).

 

But I will vote for them out of nothing but sheer selfishness.  The "I'm alright Jack" vote shall be cast in 2015, and unfortunately I see no alternative but to vote for the insular, cretinous and lying pack of toerags that are the Tories.  Because the rest are worse.

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If we left the EU, would BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Miele, Renault, LVMH et al really let their governments put trade barriers up between us and them?  Seriously?  

 

One of my clients says this and more.

 

Oh and I don't give a crap.  I'm not interested in the EU trade partners.  They're not wealthy enough. :roflmao:

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Back to the BB quandry for a second...

Folks like NNMM have started playing around with and fitting (permanently?) dashboard cameras or similar to their cars while out on the roads. I'm not suggesting any behavioural relationship to the mad Russians who all do it for self protection, but still, it is done to record events on a journey. Case in point - the nutter who got his own TSN thread for filming his own illegal and dangerous driving while providing a running commentary that he put on Youtube.

The plod can seize these devices (or their storage media) and the video footage, timestamps etc (GPS co-ords?) used as some form of evidence, or proof of bad behaviour. Easier to get to than a car's ECUs and whatnot "on the spot" much like I assume the black boxes would be accessed.

So people are already self incriminating, willfully aided by the latest technology. How does this differ (devil's advocate time) from a BB being fitted to the vehicle.

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I think we all know the difference between a dashcam and this directive is very large.

 

If I do 44 mph and skid off a corner in a 40 mph zone, my camera (I don't have one now, but let's say I did) records it and you all laugh at it.  The police are probably never even involved.

 

If I do 44 mph and skid off a corner in a 40 mph zone, with a black, pink, white or purple (Luke) box monitoring my every move, the insurer could say I was breaking the law and therefore uninsured.  Potentially.

 

Simples. 

Edited by NewNiceMrMe
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