"Relay Crime" reality?

[Waylander]

keep seeing fb posts of keyless entry cars being nicked with a bloke waving a big square receiver in front of the house, "reading" the key and fooling the car etc.

 

Are these fake? Keyless entry seems to need you to be right by the car so can these receivers really pick them up from more than a metre in the house etc?

[Andy_Bangle]

It's been going on for at least a year, you can buy the kit quite cheaply on the 'net. It's the next step up from last year's favourite of connecting via the On-board diagnostics port to disable the immobiliser and start the car without the keys.

https://news.sky.com/story/relay-crime-police-release-footage-of-new-type-of-vehicle-robbery-11145015

[Andy_Bangle]

Need better 'old school' physical security to put them off stealing it in the first such as a steering lock, gates or a driveway post, which has the disadvantage that the scumbags will come knocking for the keys. They don't care about cameras & security lights as it happens so quickly, no one will notice.

[Waylander]

Never even thought of a driveway post - may be easier than sorting electric gates!

To be fair to the missus she suggested steering locks. I'll look into those too.

worrying indeed.

[DaveP]

4 ranger rovers taken in our small town (that I know of).  Discovery taken late one night (around midnight).

Reality!

I know it is not limited to Range Rovers, but locally that seems to be what they are targetting

 

[Booster]

How do they get the code from the key? Surely it isn't giving out signals all the while? They must have to be near you when you lock or unlock the car to "read" the signal?

 

[Waylander]

in trying to get fact from fear about the range of these sensors - and simple tweaks to mitigate.

The more complex the solution the more chance of forgetting one night (eg taking keys up to landing etc).

metal box to store them in overnight? All seems silly when you type it out though!

[Andy_Bangle]

 

51 minutes ago, Waylander said:

in trying to get fact from fear about the range of these sensors - and simple tweaks to mitigate.

 

The handheld 'board' (seen in the facebook video) amplifies the signal from the keyfob. One 'board' is meant to be held a few feet from the victim's car, while the other is placed near the victim's key fob. The first radio impersonates the car's key and pings the car's wireless entry system, triggering a signal from the vehicle that seeks a radio response from the key. Then that signal is relayed between the attackers' two radios as far as 300 feet, eliciting the correct response from the key, which is then transmitted back to the car to complete the "handshake".

The German version of the AA, the ADAC, researched this last year and found that the following vulnerable vehicles: Audi A3, A4 and A6, BMW's 730d, Citroen's DS4 CrossBack, Ford's Galaxy and Eco-Sport, Honda's HR-V, Hyundai's Santa Fe CRDi, KIA's Optima, Lexus's RX 450h, Mazda's CX-5, MINI's Clubman, Mitsubishi's Outlander, Nissan's Qashqai and Leaf, Opel's Ampera, Range Rover's Evoque, Renault's Traffic, Ssangyong's Tivoli XDi, Subaru's Levorg, Toyota's RAV4, and Volkswagen's Golf GTD and Touran 5T. Only the BMW i3 resisted the researchers' attack, though they were still able to start its ignition.  In 2015 researchers revealed that they'd cracked the encryption used by the chipmaker Megamos in several different makes of car owned by VAG.

The best way to protect your car is to put your keys in the freezer, which acts as a Faraday Cage, and won’t allow a signal to get in or out.

 

 

Edited November 27, 2017 by Andy_Bangle

[Waylander]

They’ve quoted the transmission range of the radios.

clearly many factors will influence the sensitivity of the keyfob transmitter but a rough guide : 1m, 5m etc would be useful.....although I guess that way lies complacency 

[Andy_Bangle]

1 hour ago, Booster said:

How do they get the code from the key? Surely it isn't giving out signals all the while? They must have to be near you when you lock or unlock the car to "read" the signal?

In a normal scenario, when you walk up to a car with a keyless entry and try the door handle, the car wirelessly calls out for your key so you don’t have to press any buttons to get inside. If the key calls back, the door unlocks. But as you know, the keyless system is capable of searching for a key only within a couple of feet. When the crooks device is turned it amplifies the distance that the car can search, which then allows the car to talk to key.

[Booster]

Ta.

Surely then the easiest fix is just to turn off the keyless entry feature meaning you just press the button on the remote to unlock?

[Andy_Bangle]

3 minutes ago, Waylander said:

They’ve quoted the transmission range of the radios.

clearly many factors will influence the sensitivity of the keyfob transmitter but a rough guide : 1m, 5m etc would be useful.....although I guess that way lies complacency 

Guess you could always test it yourself by seeing how close you can get to the car before it unlocks? Put the keyfobs on the other side of the house? in the garden shed?

People are lazy and creatures of habit, that's how the letterbox fishing crimes work, you leave the keys near the front door and they get nicked. 

[Andy_Bangle]

2 minutes ago, Booster said:

Ta.

Surely then the easiest fix is just to turn off the keyless entry feature meaning you just press the button on the remote to unlock?

True, then the thieves have to break a window or force the door and start the car using 'last years method' of connecting a computer to the OBD port to disable the immobiliser. Takes a couple of seconds longer. 

[Waylander]

1 hour ago, Andy_Bangle said:

Guess you could always test it yourself by seeing how close you can get to the car before it unlocks? Put the keyfobs on the other side of the house? in the garden shed?

People are lazy and creatures of habit, that's how the letterbox fishing crimes work, you leave the keys near the front door and they get nicked. 

Ive already done that.

You can't unlock by standing in the porch let alone the house so the range is very short

[DaveP]

We have had notices sent out detailing the crimes locally.  They posted this URL for a pouch that blocks the RF:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Signal-Blocking-Wisdompro®-Shielding-Pouch-Black/dp/B071KVWTYZ/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1511001779&sr=8-4&keywords=pouch+of+car+key&dpID=51xv1aD0JSL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

No idea how good they are - I don't have keyless entry.

 

Maybe get a lead lined front door?

[Waylander]

Thanks - good thing to buy; will get a couple for both our cars

 

Do you guys use crook locks too? If so which one?

[Andy_Bangle]

I’ve never bothered going OTT on physical security to stop scumbags stealing my cars. Twice when I had the 911 and the CSL I was followed home by people in cars who showed far to much interest in the contents of my driveway. 

Years ago I used do things like remove the HT lead but even that’s not so easy these days  

If they want it then they’ll take it be-it from your driveway, office or when you stop at traffic lights. And the police won’t give a rats arse unless you post something naughty on twitter. 

[CarMad]

I don't on ours but the keys have been mover back into the house more. They are already on the other side of a porch area thats over a 1.5mtrs but will move them further. 

Having a lock on the car like a crock lock would feel like I was driving my first car again, no thanks. 

[Waylander]

15 minutes ago, Andy_Bangle said:

I’ve never bothered going OTT on physical security to stop scumbags stealing my cars. Twice when I had the 911 and the CSL I was followed home by people in cars who showed far to much interest in the contents of my driveway. 

Years ago I used do things like remove the HT lead but even that’s not so easy these days  

If they want it then they’ll take it be-it from your driveway, office or when you stop at traffic lights. And the police won’t give a rats arse unless you post something naughty on twitter. 

 

14 minutes ago, CarMad said:

I don't on ours but the keys have been mover back into the house more. They are already on the other side of a porch area thats over a 1.5mtrs but will move them further. 

Having a lock on the car like a crock lock would feel like I was driving my first car again, no thanks. 

That’s exactly how I feel.  

i will buy the rfid bag for the missus Outlander though as that is keyless entry.

the jag is fob button press but key present in car start

[Rachel]

On 11/27/2017 at 9:19 PM, Andy_Bangle said:

The best way to protect your car is to put your keys in the freezer, which acts as a Faraday Cage, and won’t allow a signal to get in or out.

Or the microwave (Freezer will kill the battery in the key)...

or wrap in foil and put in a metal cake tin...

or you can actually buy "Faraday" bags to put things in like phones (so you can't be tracked, or it can't blab) and keys too...  The Internet is an amazing place - you even have a UK based manufacturer:   http://faradaybag.com/

...and an Oz shop:  https://www.faradaybags.com.au/shop

Edited November 29, 2017 by Rachel

[max_b]

This is rife everywhere at the moment, more than you realise. Not just 'top end' cars but plently of day to day cars such as fiestas, focus's, etc. Anything with keyless entry - its gone back to the days of the 90s for car theft. Unfortunately there is just not enough 'resource' to deal with the scumbags and they know it.

I follow a page on FB called 'Stolen Cars Midlands' and most days there are at least 7/8 cars around the midlands reported stolen, most using this method and this is just for folk that know about the page and report it on there - loads don't!

What can you do - as Rachel has said Faraday case for your keys. If you don't want to do that a metal (biscuit) tin to store your keys - you can test if this works but taking your keys in your tin to your car and seeing if the doors open. Physical security is a big one - get one of the orginal Disloks - a bit of a pain to use but sends a message to mr scumbag to move onto another car that hasn't got one on. You can of course also add physical bits around the house - security lights, security posts - just don't forget to put them down before driving off 

[shao_khan]

I have a metal key case screwed to the back of a steel beam. Should work on the same principle.

[CarMad]

Ours are in the middle of the house 12+ft and several walls away in every direction from the outside of the house so I assume that will do the job. 

You have to be right on top of the car for it to work with the BMW so I'm assuming that should be sufficient. 

[Ian_C]

15 hours ago, CarMad said:

Ours are in the middle of the house 12+ft and several walls away in every direction from the outside of the house so I assume that will do the job. 

You have to be right on top of the car for it to work with the BMW so I'm assuming that should be sufficient. 

No, the thieves are not kidding the key to send a signal out - the key is sending a signal out all the time.  Their device multiplies the signal enough to the extent is strong enough to open the car.  The device makes the car think the key is in close proximity.  The devices will vary, but they can work up to 300 feet in a straight line!  So unless you live in Buckingham Palace, simply moving the keys away from the porch isn't going to be enough

[Ian_C]

On 29/11/2017 at 11:20 PM, max_b said:

This is rife everywhere at the moment, more than you realise. Not just 'top end' cars but plently of day to day cars such as fiestas, focus's, etc. Anything with keyless entry - its gone back to the days of the 90s for car theft

Unfortunately so.  Car keys that don't have a physical metal key blade, and car keys that don't require you to press a button to gain entry to the car have meant car owners are going back to 80s and 90s theft prevention methods!  Lots of owners on RS246 with Disloks as you mention over their Audi flat bottom steering wheels.  People wiring kill switches into the ignition circuit like my dad used to on his MGs!

Back in the 90s people were using Clifford Blackjax as a device that would prevent the car being taken, even if the thief obtained the keys.  20 years on, a similar system is Autowatch Ghost, using the cars canbus system to input a 4-20 digit code via any of the cars existing buttons (rather than inputting a code using a hidden switch like Blackjax)